File talk:1881-empire-bra-vie-parisienne-henri-montaut.gif

I think this image is the original of the cartoon. The cartoonist had only known that from text and/or sketch from people in his age. —haabet 18:24, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

1808

Sorry I didn't see your comment before, Haabet -- but in any case, that pic is obviously NOT the source for Henri de Montaut's 1881 illustration, since the garment in the 1808 pic doesn't have seem to have shoulder straps (the sleeves you see are to the underlying chemise or shift), it extends far below the breasts to the natural waist, is laced in front, and doesn't cover the nipples. I would like to know what Montaut's exact source was too, but that aint' it... Churchh 20:42, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

The Henri Montaut had need to make many drawings, and he do not know this image, but know a superficial description. Old description of many years older things are often unreliable. And this is olddays porno. Can the scientists of the future, describe ours era by pornofilm? If no, how can you describe the past by porno? 21:31, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Haabet, I really don't know what you're trying to say. The whole 1881 La Vie Parisienne illustration (of which Image:1881-empire-bra-vie-parisienne-henri-montaut.gif was originally a part) was mildly titillating by 1881 standards, but it was not pornography, nor is Image:1881-empire-bra-vie-parisienne-henri-montaut.gif obviously drawn from a pornographic source. And if Image:Brassiere1808a.jpg (which is NOT a "brassiere" by the way) is supposed to be pornography, then it misses the mark, since it makes me burst out laughing, instead of getting me excited. In any case, de Montaut obviously didn't get his information about the garment in Image:1881-empire-bra-vie-parisienne-henri-montaut.gif at first hand -- but the fact that in 1881 (before modern bras were even really invented, and certainly before they came into any widespread use) de Montaut thought that early 19th-century woman had worn a garment quite close to a modern bra is a significant datum in itself. And I see no absolutely no relationship whatsoever between Image:1881-empire-bra-vie-parisienne-henri-montaut.gif and Image:Brassiere1808a.jpg. Churchh 15:01, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

If you see humorous sexy sketchings of a fashion which is older as 15 years, that are more fantasy as historical document. haabet 20:50, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Haabet, I'm not really sure what you mean, but the reason why I laugh is that the engraver was a lot more worried about his techniques for depicting abstract geometric shapes than he was with what a woman's body actually looks like. Churchh 06:55, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

I see no absolutely no relationship whatsoever between the inages,

Then why did you raise the issue in the first place? Churchh 06:55, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

but I KNOW they have a relationship by the superficial description of the fashion in the first image and see that reproduced in the second image. Please use sources from at the same time as era, if that is possible. haabet 20:50, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Haabet, your 1808 illo DOESN'T DEPICT A BRA AT ALL, but only semi-long laced stays without shoulder straps, which is a completely different thing. If I had a contemporary Regency (early 19th century) illustration of a bra, then that would be even better than Image talk:1881-empire-bra-vie-parisienne-henri-montaut.gif , of course -- but I don't, and I don't think anyone else does, either. So Image talk:1881-empire-bra-vie-parisienne-henri-montaut.gif is still of interest. If you think that Henri de Montaut just completely made it up, then say so; however, I would tend to doubt it... Churchh 06:55, 27 May 2006 (UTC)