File talk:2021 Armenia-Azerbaijan Border Clashes.svg
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Artsakh borders[编辑]
Hey Rr016, is it possible to include to the map Artsakh's borders which are at the moment under Azerbaijani control? Sincerely, Գարիկ Ավագյան (留言) 16:50, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
- @Գարիկ Ավագյան: The map has been updated. --Rr016 (留言) 23:51, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
- @Rr016: Thank you very much! Is it also possible to add the Shahumyan region, which was also part of the Nagorno-Karabakh Republic at the time of its declaration of independence? Sincerely, Գարիկ Ավագյան (留言) 13:10, 14 December 2021 (UTC)
- Shahumyan region was not part of Nagorno-Karabakh Autonomous Oblast (NKAO) nor was it ever controlled by the self-proclaimed republic during its "independence". Showing the former NKAO and current line of contact is good enough. Golden (留言) 15:54, 14 December 2021 (UTC)
- Shahumyan region was part of the Nagorno-Karabakh Republic at the time of its proclamation and was also the part in which the referendum for independence was held. The Nagorno-Karabakh Republic has never consisted only of the former NKAO. Sincerely, Գարիկ Ավագյան (留言) 09:35, 19 December 2021 (UTC)
- I think you're confusing the showing of former NKAO borders with showing the unrecognised republic's claims. The point in showing NKAO borders is because it's at the heart of the conflict and is what the negotiations are discussing; not to show what Artsakh is claiming. The former Shahumyan region is a claim made by a completely unrecognised republic with zero control over the region. Its claim is as valid as a random person's claim to a random country. Plus, what relevance do Artsakh's claims have to a border clash between Armenia and Azerbaijan? This has nothing to do with Karabakh. — Golden call me maybe? 10:26, 19 December 2021 (UTC)
- These are the borders of Artsakh, which it controlled during the proclamation of its independence, but which came under the control of Azerbaijan in the 90s. These are the original territories. What makes you think that the Artsakh Republic consists only of Nagorno-Karabakh? Shahumyan region is not just a claim, it is part of Artsakh in which the referendum for independence was held. I do think that the region should be included in the map, as the territories of Artsakh [not Nagorno-Karabakh] which are under Azerbaijani control. Sincerely, Գարիկ Ավագյան (留言) 12:53, 20 December 2021 (UTC)
- I think you're confusing the fact that the point in showing parts of Nagorno-Karabakh under Azerbaijani control isn't to show what Artsakh is claiming, but to show what territory the conflict is over. The former Shahumyan region, which was not part of the Nagorno-Karabakh Autonomous Oblast, is at this point a claim of a fully unrecognised country that does not have any control over it. An internationally unrecognised referendum (which the local Azeri population boycotted) doesn't make the claim any more valid. It's also completely irrelevant to the subject of this specific map, which is about border clashes between Armenia and Azerbaijan; nothing to do with Nagorno-Karabakh. — Golden call me maybe? 14:18, 20 December 2021 (UTC)
- The question is not what Artsakh claims but to show its borders, which are disputed between Artsakh and Azerbaijan. Shahumyan region is part of the original border of the Republic of Artsakh at the time of its proclamation. Showing Nagorno-Karabakh only as part of Artsakh is your clear POV. Here is the latest interview of the Artsakh's MFA. [1]Sincerely, Գարիկ Ավագյան (留言) 13:00, 26 December 2021 (UTC)
- Former NKAO borders and current LoC are not displayed for the purpose of showing what Artsakh's borders are or what it claims. It's to show what territories' status is still to be discussed and what the conflict is still continuing for. Not showing "borders" claimed by a political entity that no other country or organisation recognised is not "clear POV" (all international organisations' maps are POV?) and accusing someone of such a thing isn't very nice either. — Golden call me maybe? 20:36, 26 December 2021 (UTC)
- The question is not what Artsakh claims but to show its borders, which are disputed between Artsakh and Azerbaijan. Shahumyan region is part of the original border of the Republic of Artsakh at the time of its proclamation. Showing Nagorno-Karabakh only as part of Artsakh is your clear POV. Here is the latest interview of the Artsakh's MFA. [1]Sincerely, Գարիկ Ավագյան (留言) 13:00, 26 December 2021 (UTC)
- I think you're confusing the fact that the point in showing parts of Nagorno-Karabakh under Azerbaijani control isn't to show what Artsakh is claiming, but to show what territory the conflict is over. The former Shahumyan region, which was not part of the Nagorno-Karabakh Autonomous Oblast, is at this point a claim of a fully unrecognised country that does not have any control over it. An internationally unrecognised referendum (which the local Azeri population boycotted) doesn't make the claim any more valid. It's also completely irrelevant to the subject of this specific map, which is about border clashes between Armenia and Azerbaijan; nothing to do with Nagorno-Karabakh. — Golden call me maybe? 14:18, 20 December 2021 (UTC)
- These are the borders of Artsakh, which it controlled during the proclamation of its independence, but which came under the control of Azerbaijan in the 90s. These are the original territories. What makes you think that the Artsakh Republic consists only of Nagorno-Karabakh? Shahumyan region is not just a claim, it is part of Artsakh in which the referendum for independence was held. I do think that the region should be included in the map, as the territories of Artsakh [not Nagorno-Karabakh] which are under Azerbaijani control. Sincerely, Գարիկ Ավագյան (留言) 12:53, 20 December 2021 (UTC)
- I think you're confusing the showing of former NKAO borders with showing the unrecognised republic's claims. The point in showing NKAO borders is because it's at the heart of the conflict and is what the negotiations are discussing; not to show what Artsakh is claiming. The former Shahumyan region is a claim made by a completely unrecognised republic with zero control over the region. Its claim is as valid as a random person's claim to a random country. Plus, what relevance do Artsakh's claims have to a border clash between Armenia and Azerbaijan? This has nothing to do with Karabakh. — Golden call me maybe? 10:26, 19 December 2021 (UTC)
- Shahumyan region was part of the Nagorno-Karabakh Republic at the time of its proclamation and was also the part in which the referendum for independence was held. The Nagorno-Karabakh Republic has never consisted only of the former NKAO. Sincerely, Գարիկ Ավագյան (留言) 09:35, 19 December 2021 (UTC)
- Shahumyan region was not part of Nagorno-Karabakh Autonomous Oblast (NKAO) nor was it ever controlled by the self-proclaimed republic during its "independence". Showing the former NKAO and current line of contact is good enough. Golden (留言) 15:54, 14 December 2021 (UTC)
- @Rr016: Thank you very much! Is it also possible to add the Shahumyan region, which was also part of the Nagorno-Karabakh Republic at the time of its declaration of independence? Sincerely, Գարիկ Ավագյան (留言) 13:10, 14 December 2021 (UTC)
