File talk:CSS Manassas.jpg

Number of stacks: A discussion of the number of smokestacks on CSS Manassas was started on the Talk page of WikiProject Ships. Because it is more appropriate for this page, the entire discussion has been copied here, where it can be continued if desired.

This is a problem that I do not know how to handle. The widely-used picture of CSS Manassas is incorrect. As emphasized by Chester Hearn (Capture of New Orleans, 1862. Louisiana State Univ., 1995. ISBN 0-8071-1945-8), p. 68, she had two stacks, not one. Ordinarily, this would be handled by replacing the present image by a correct one, but I have been unable to find such a picture that does not violate copyright issues. A good one - at least, I think it is good - can be seen at ddowdey@sc.rr.com. (Dowdey is a marine artist who makes his living selling prints of his work. I'm not about to undermine him.) R. Thomas Campbell (Confederate Naval Forces on Western Waters, McFarlane, 2005. ISBN 0-7864-2203-3), p. 73, shows another. He credits it to Battles and Leaders, which would put it in the public domain, but I can't find it there, so I worry that the attribution is incorrect. I know that I can just nominate the present image for deletion, but there is nothing to replace it. You know and I know that as soon as the discussion is forgotten, the same old picture will be downloaded again, and we will be right where we started. And that is the problem. Does anyone have suggestions? PKKloeppel (talk) 16:58, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

GAKK! I just wanted to link to the incorrect image, not show it here. What have I done wrong? PKKloeppel (talk) 17:02, 14 September 2010 (UTC)  完了 Fixed. —Diiscool (talk) 17:07, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

One possibility from a quick google books search: pages 264 and 196 296 of this 1897 book have etchings of the ship. Although it's hard to see, I think both etchings have two stacks. Cheers. Haus^Talk 17:18, 14 September 2010 (UTC) Interesting side-note, apparently the stacks were able to be retracted into the hull during battle, which might explain things. This was noted on page 265 of the above book. Haus^Talk 17:24, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

Nope. I have a copy of Scharf, and his pictures show a one-stack Manassas. As for the telescoping or collapsing stacks that he mentions, I have strong doubts. They would be hard to square with accounts of battle damage that Captain Warley provided (ORN ser. I, v. 16, p. 730a; v. 18, pp. 154, 344.) Furthermore, I don't see any use for them. Collapsing stacks were used by some of the raiders when under sail, with the purpose of altering the ship's profile. That would not have been of any advantage to Manassas. (I don't know where Scharf got his information; his book is full of comments like this, many of which lack any kind of documentation.) PKKloeppel (talk) 01:10, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

See [1] the general shape in this sketch is confirmed by [2] which does not itself add much to the question of stacks but does confirm that she was twin-screw.Dankarl (talk) 18:27, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

I don't quarrel with the general shape, although often the aspect ratio (ratio of freeboard to length) doesn't seem to match the record. My only argument is with the number of stacks, which is one of the primary means of identifying a vessel. PKKloeppel (talk) 01:10, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Well if they were retractable into the hull as Haus said, the number of stacks in a given illustration should not be an issue. Gatoclass (talk) 05:30, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

• A foolish question, but are we sure she 'always had two stacks? The Naval Historical Center sketch linked above was made whilst refitting in 1861, and it seems pretty clear that there's only one shown there; might the refitting have included altering the number of stacks, so she went from one to two or vice versa? Shimgray | talk | 18:37, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

The fact that the sketch shows only one stack is precisely the problem. (Don't be deceived by the fact that the Naval Historical Center is something of an "official" source. Captain Warley refers to her smokestacks (note the plural) at both the Battle of the Head of Passes and Battle of Forts Jackson and St. Philip. Those two battles span her entire service life.

As for retracting the stacks in battle, that is not only undocumented, it is unphysical. It would cause the vessel to lose speed at the very time it is most needed.

This thread is clearly going nowhere. I brought the subject up only in the vague hope that someone could supply a correct picture free from copyright restrictions. That hope seems to have been in vain. The turn that the conversation is taking does not belong here, but should be continued on the article talk page. PKKloeppel (talk) 23:10, 16 September 2010 (UTC)