File talk:Chasaren.jpg

Kursk is a bit strange on this map. Hatifnatter (talk) 22:57, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

Почему на том месте где должна быть Армения (Armenia) написано Грузия (Georgia) ? --Rs4815 (talk) 08:54, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Modification of may 2016, 29

If really "Vlachs don't exist before 13-th century", explain us their origins, please Mr. Laszlovszky. Vladimir Zhirinovsky said "they are bastards from Roma people melting with Genoese merchants". I suppose you have another explanation ? --Julieta39 (トーク) 14:47, 8 July 2016 (UTC). Now listen please : I'm not a supporter of one or other one uncertain theories, but about the sources, the first ones appears during the 9th. in greek (byzantine sources) ; otherwise, linguistic, toponymic & archaeological facts prove the nomadic transhumance of the east-romance speaking shepherds on the both banks of the low-Danube since a long period before the 13th c. So Vlachs cannot be omitted on a historical map, mostly because the disparition of a linguistic group and it's recurrence after ten centuries of nothingness is impossible. Good wishes, --Julieta39 (トーク) 19:53, 12 July 2016 (UTC)

Then give me that source which tells about Vlachs. But this map shows things from the 6th century to the 9th century. So even if there is a mention of Vlachs from the 9th century, it's still out of context. Laszlovszky András (トーク) 07:21, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

Well, we have some early sources, beginning by Theophylact Simocatta and Theophanes the Confessor about periods before the 9th century, continuing by George Kedrenos and finishing by Anna Komnene, John Kinnamos and Kekaumenos (see Victor Spinei, The Romanians and the Turkic Nomads North of the Danube Delta from the Tenth to the Mid-Thirteenth Century, Brill, 2009, p. 106-132, ISBN 9789047428800 & 9789004175365; G. Popa-Lisseanu, Sources of the history of East-romance people IV-th issue, Bucharest 1935, p. 32; A. Decei, V. Ciocîltan, Al-Maqdisi about Vlachs in “Romano-arabica” vol. I, Bucharest 1974, pp. 49–54; M. Manea, A. Pascu, B. Teodorescu, History of east-romance people from the origins until the 1821 revolution, Ed. Didactica & Pedagogica, Bucharest 1997; Gheorghe I. Brătianu, The Black Sea since the ancient times until the ottoman conquest, Polirom, Jassy 1999, pp. 182-193; G. Murnu, When & where the east-romance speaking people do appear in history ? in „Convorbiri Literare” vol XXX, pp. 97-112; Mircea Muşat, Ion Ardeleanu From ancient Dacia to modern Romania, p. 114 and also [1], [2], [3], [4], [5], [6], [7]), but this is a matter of scholarly speculation: you can said (& must prove) than “Vlachs exist only on the right (south) bank of the Danube until the 13-th century”, but it's a foolish absurdity to said “they don't exist until the 13-th century”. If they “don't exist” between the end of the Roman domination in the Balkan & low-Danube area, and the 13-th century, where people speaking east-romance languages lived during this ten centuries? under ground? in the sky? on the moon? In the facts, by logical evidence, it's absolutely impossible to consider (and to show on the maps) the disparition of a linguistic group and it's recurrence after ten centuries of inexistence (many sources affirm the existence of the Loch Ness monster, and the inexistence of Auschwitz camp and of the Gulag: this does not mean that we must slavishly follow their points of view). This is not a nationalist hungarian-romanian controversy but a logical thinking question. Have a nice day, --Julieta39 (トーク) 15:13, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

This is a question of logic, yes, but not of nationalist Romanian "historians" that you have brought here. All of them are Romanians. Otherwise, I didn't say that Vlachs didn't exist before the 13th century - I only said that they weren't THERE. Those Byzantian historians you mentioned don't always mention where did Vlachs live. But those who wrote, wrote that they lived in Illyria and Albania. For example, Theophylact Simocatta wrote that they lived in the Pindus and Thessaly. So it's nonsense to write the name of the Vlachs there. Laszlovszky András (トーク) 15:50, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

Well, you're following this opinions : [8], [9], [10] and [11], and I'm followed this [12] map (from the Westermann Grosser Atlas zur Weltgeschichte, Hans-Erich Stier - dir.). Please look now to the new version of the map, is it enough far from Erdely ? I hope that will be OK for you, --Julieta39 (トーク) 09:44, 16 July 2016 (UTC) P.S. Never I allow myself to write contemptly « hungarian "historians" » and to blame them for researching the origins of Magyars. Please try to have the same phlegm regarding the romanian researchers. Not all of them are a nationalist idiots flock, and not all of the hungarians historians are an illustrious and serious academy. Differences between humans aren't so sample. Thanks, --Julieta39 (トーク) 09:58, 16 July 2016 (UTC)

[13] Laszlovszky András (トーク) 11:14, 16 July 2016 (UTC)

Yes, every people has his extremists & hoaxers. See [14]. I am not one of them. Only I said : "As the Great architect of the Universe, the east-romance speakers between 270 & 1270 can't be proved in a precise area of the Low-Danube & Balkan area, but anyone can prove their inexistence !"  ;-) The important is to can working together. Excuse my bad english, --Julieta39 (トーク) 13:45, 16 July 2016 (UTC)

You linked blogs and opinions, but nothing proves that Vlachs were near the Lower Danube before the 13th century. Near the Lower Danube, the first mentions are from the 13th century, when the Hungarians organised a bishopric after the Mongol invasion. So I don't allow this version to be here, only if Vlachs were in Illyria. Laszlovszky András (トーク) 17:26, 16 July 2016 (UTC)

By the ancient writings (before the byzantine sources) we haven't evidences anywhere, neither in Illyria nor elsewhere ; however « absence of evidence is not evidence of absence ». Only linguistics & toponymics give paths. And show a nomadic transhumance as the main activity of the east-romance speakers in the early phasis of the evolution of this linguistic group, among the other greek, slavic, carpic (proto-albanic), alanic (Jassics & Jassy) and magyar speakers also (with a lot of early magyaric words in the east-romance languages, as gond for think). In this time, nobody was nationalist and the borders were porous. You know all this. Wishes, --Julieta39 (トーク) 20:17, 17 July 2016 (UTC)