File talk:Crossingtherhine.jpg

File:Crossingtherhine.jpg

The description for this file is incorrect. It uses a quote without any attribution. The quote refers to an "assault boat" but that is not what the men in the photo are in - they are in a DUKW amphibious vehicle. An assault boat was a small wooden boat, similar to a typical rowboat, and could carry 12 or so men, all of which would be sitting upright and those along the sides would be using paddles to row the boat across a body of water. An assault boat could not carry as many men as can be seen in the photo, especially if they were lying down. Also note the two men that are on what is the back deck of the DUKW, a position that would be impossible at the rear of an assault boat. Wikipedia actually has an entry for the actual assault boat. Ray Merriam (留言) 07:00, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

The description is the original caption: http://web.archive.org/web/20120916151426/http://www.dodmedia.osd.mil/DVIC_View/Still_Details.cfm?SDAN=HDSN9902745&JPGPath=/Assets/Still/1999/DoD/HD-SN-99-02745.JPG Le Petit Chat (留言) 08:38, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

My problem with the "original" caption is that it uses the term "assault boat" when it is clearly a DUKW, an amphibious truck, more commonly called a "DUKW". This is plainly obvious by the details seen on the interior of the walls of the vehicle's hold that the men are cowering inside, with two additional soldiers perched rather precariously on the rear deck of the DUKW. There would be no such "perch" for those two soldiers on the rear of an "assault boat".

Also, I cannot recall seeing a quote used as a description for a photo on Wikipedia. I have viewed literally thousands of WWII photos on Wikipedia over the years, and I cannot recall seeing such a method of description. There is no mention of the source of the quote, such as a specific document, book or other publication, not even the name of the person who made this statement. I believe the description needs to be corrected to provide a typically detailed description that is more usually found on Wikipedia.

Additional details also need to be added, such as unit identification and actual date, in addition to the type of "craft" the men are in. This photo is used in the Wikipedia entry for Operation Plunder, which is how I came across this photo. The caption for the photo on that page has a better caption: "U.S. 89th Division crossing the Rhine under fire", but is still incomplete.

I have been studying and researching WWII and military history for over 55 years, and even have been a publisher of numerous books and publications on many WWII subjects, including veterans memoirs. I have seen this photo used many times in books and publications and websites over the years, none of which have correctly identified the vehicle; many even get other details wrong, and some do not include any details at all. Some even claim it is a photo taken during the D-Day invasion of Normandy.

A website, gallagherstory.com, features a lengthy account of the late Robert F. Gallagher's service in WWII as a member of the 815th Anti-aircraft Artillery Battalion, which saw action at St. Goar at the time of the crossing by the 89th Division. Chapter 18: St. Goar, Germany, provides some details about the crossing and includes two photos of the crossing. They appear about midway down the page. https://gallagherstory.com/ww2/chapter18.html

One of the photos shows the assault boats going across during a daytime crossing (the initial crossing as at 2am on March 26th, 1945). These are the assault boats that hold ten men who use paddles to propel the boats across the river and you can see them sitting upright in the boats with paddles.

The second photo is, of course this photo of the men in the DUKW. Gallagher's text states that there were crossings in what he terms as "powerboats" which were almost likely the DUKWs. He specifically states, just above the photo, "In later waves, men crossed in powerboats, still under heavy fire from the Germans across the river (See Fig. 94). The photo's actual caption states, "GIs crouch low in motored assault boat on their way across the Rhine River from St. Goar to St. Goarshausen." The men being ferried and, especially the men serving in Gallagher's unit, probably wouldn't have known the "official" or slang name for a DUKW, and to them they were just another "boat" that moved under its own power.

The original nighttime crossing was apparently a disaster and many men were killed or wounded and assault boats were destroyed.

The DOD website has this photo at https://www.defense.gov/Multimedia/Photos/igphoto/2002268486/ and gives a date of March 23, 1945, which is before the first crossing by the 89th Division which was on 26 March, the nighttime crossing. The US Holocaust Memorial Museum uses the same photo and the date they provide is March 22nd.

The photo is US Army Signal Corps photo number SC 202464, which should be available at the National Archives. The US Navy's Naval History and Heritage Command has it on their website at https://www.history.navy.mil/our-collections/photography/numerical-list-of-images/nara-series/sc-series/SC-200000/sc-202464-crossing-the-rhine--1945.html and their caption is "89th Division soldiers crouch low in their crowded assault boat, to escape enemy fire as they cross the Rhine River at Oberwesel, Germany, 26 March 1945. Note 89th Division insignia on men's shoulders, and variety of weapons (including M-1 rifles, Thompson submachine gun, and a Browning Automatic Rifle)." The Army's SC photos tended to have extensive details about a photo such as photographer (T/5 A.H. Herz) and date (1945-03-26), but having seen many of the SC photos over the years both from visiting the Army's photo agency when it was still in the Pentagon as well as a set of documents that lists these photos by division or subject matter, the accuracy of the photographer's description of what they photographed was not always 100% accurate. Ray Merriam (留言) 10:50, 7 June 2024 (UTC)