File talk:European Ancestry Large.svg
It's true that Turkey, Armenia & the other countries you listed are not considered European by general consensus. But so is Russia and by Russians themself. Aside of that coloring the countries in Turkqoise blocks the possibility to show the European anchestry data for those countries. I would rather make a note under the map and still color those countries accordingly to have a full view of the relevant data. TheGroninger (留言) 14:20, 19 April 2020 (UTC)
Cyprus
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Can someone fix Northern Cyprus? Half of the island is missing. Make it either teal or blue but right now it looks haphazard. --89.245.131.94 22:48, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
Cypriot Greeks are Europeans
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Cypriot Greeks are Europeans, Cypriot Turks are not. Therefore the entire island of Cyprus on the map should not be turquoise. Ho Pak-chuen (留言) 19:37, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
- It doesn't work that way. Iktsokh (留言) 14:21, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
Israel has a large number of European immigrants
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Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews come from Central Europe and Spain respectively, especially the former mixed with European whites. These two categories account for half of Israel’s population today. So Israel should have a certain degree of blue on the map anyway. Ho Pak-chuen (留言) 19:40, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
@Iktsokh, @Rene Bascos Sarabia Jr. "Europeanness disputed" color is for countries that may or may not be considered European, depending on what European means one can use arguments based on history, culture, geography and politics to affirm or deny the Europeanness of Turkey, Cyprus, Georgia, Armenia and Azerbaijan. Israel, however, is a totally different situation. Although the Europeanness of Ashkenazi Jews is disputed since Jews sees themselves as a Middle-Eastern people, it does not make much sense to place Israel in the category of “disputed Europeanness”. There are 2.8 million Ashhenazi Jews in Israel representing about 30% of the Israeli population, put Israel in the appropriate shade of purple. Source: https://people.socsci.tau.ac.il/mu/noah/files/2018/07/Ethnic-origin-and-identity-in-Israel-JEMS-2018.pdf . Mawer10 (留言) 00:14, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
- In addition to the Ashkenazim, there are also the Sephardim, who make up about 10% of Israel's population. Iktsokh (留言) 14:19, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
- In Israel, Sephardic and Mizrahi are synonymous so it is difficult to know how many of them there are in the country. In any case, I don't think we should consider them as Europeans: they do not have a European culture, they have been living outside of Europe for more than five centuries, and they have mixed through marriage with Jews from North Africa and the Middle East where the Sephardic culture was widely adopted. Mawer10 (留言) 15:08, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
- By Sephardic Jews I mean those from Mediterranean countries (among which are Southern European countries such as Spain, Portugal, Italy, France, Greece, Malta, and Turkey). This is indeed a fuzzy term, as the same Sephardic Jews from the Maghreb can also be selectively categorized as Mizrahi. Iktsokh (留言) 16:17, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
- I don't think there are any detailed sources on this, and without sources there isn't much point in our speculations. One problem I see in sources discussing Israel's demographics is that many sources often say "X% of the Israeli Jewish population" ignoring the 2 million Israeli Arabs, plus there is a little problem with counting Jews in the Israeli census which excludes 300,000 to 500,000 Jews from the census. Mawer10 (留言) 01:02, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
- By Sephardic Jews I mean those from Mediterranean countries (among which are Southern European countries such as Spain, Portugal, Italy, France, Greece, Malta, and Turkey). This is indeed a fuzzy term, as the same Sephardic Jews from the Maghreb can also be selectively categorized as Mizrahi. Iktsokh (留言) 16:17, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
- In Israel, Sephardic and Mizrahi are synonymous so it is difficult to know how many of them there are in the country. In any case, I don't think we should consider them as Europeans: they do not have a European culture, they have been living outside of Europe for more than five centuries, and they have mixed through marriage with Jews from North Africa and the Middle East where the Sephardic culture was widely adopted. Mawer10 (留言) 15:08, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
@Iktsokh, @Rene Bascos Sarabia Jr. The demographics section in the article on Israel says that Ashkenazi Jews represent 44% of the Israeli Jewish population, other sources say 45% but it is close. The enlarged Jewish population in Israel according to the most recent data is 7.7 million, so 44% would equal 3.3 million Ashkenazi Jews (this number is not far from the 2.8 million claimed by the source above, from 2018). According to the most recent estimates the total population of Israel is 9.9 million. So 3.3 million Ashhenazi Jews represents 33% of Israel's total population. As for Sephardic Jews, it is actually impossible to know their numbers in Israel, as the term Sephardic also has cultural and religious connotations which means that Jews who identify with the term do not necessarily have ancestors in the Iberian peninsula. A survey of Israeli demographics will generally place them with the Mizrahi. Furthermore, it is unlikely that "pure" Sephardics from Europe constitute any significant population that would increase the proportion of European Jews in Israel beyond the 30% mark as the vast majority of European Jews are Ashhenazi. In addition to the assimilation of the Sephardim within the Jewish community of the Middle East, there is also their assimilation with the Ashkenazim and the "pure" Mizrahim within Israel. I think I don't have nothing more to add, so if you agree with me, you could edit the image as I personally don't know how to do this type of editing. Mawer10 (留言) 00:14, 9 June 2024 (UTC)
