File talk:Factory.svg

Smokestack

Copied from User_talk:Howcheng:

Hey Howcheng, I took notice of your File:Factory.svg image. However, I do have a problem with it; this because the image shows a blast furnace and smoke coming out of it. This really doesn't give a good impression towards manufacturing, and gives people a wrong ideology. I would thus like to see this image changed to a new version of the image either without a blast furnace (allot of industries simply don't need one, ie the assembly-sector; see [1]), or to an image where the chimney goes into the ground ([[2]]). An example of this can be found at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Emissionless_biochar_production.JPG KVDP (talk) 18:11, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

All I did was extract this from File:1 9 2 9.svg for use in en:Template:Company-stub. Ideally, there should be icons for both factories with a blast furnace and those without. I am, unfortunately, not good enough of a designer to make something that you want. howcheng {chat} 18:50, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

There is always a tension between ideology and communication. When you want an iconic image, you use representations of old technology, because they're widely recognized. If you want to show an anchor, you use the old style anchor (like File:Anchor.svg) even though it's not the best design available. If you want to show a car, you show a silhouette like File:Car.svg, similar to that of the Cadillac De Ville en:File:96cadillactoo.jpg, not a Prius (File:Toyota_Prius_III_20090710_front.JPG), even though it's a much less efficient design. The Factory.svg icon was originally copied off a Swedish road sign. The design of that icon is intended to be seen and understood from a distance. Anything with a bent-over smokestack will prompt the question "what kind of building do they mean by that?" Note, a en:chimney isn't specific to a en:blast furnace; it's used whenever material is burned. See also File:House.svg. I would not recommend changing that to flat roof for ideological reasons, even though it's a better design. --Slashme (talk) 16:34, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

Regarding the factory.svg image, this is something I would nevertheless like to see changed. Since I don't work with inkscape (svg), I'll definitly need some help with this one. Regarding the iconicness of the image, aldough I get what you mean, I would still like to see it altered. There are plenty of ways to keep it well understandable, it's just a bit of a manner of trying out an idea and seeing whether it works; the http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Health_pictogram.png I made a while ago is an example of this; after some thinkering, one often comes up with something that stays close to the origal, yet still does the job.

KVDP (talk) 16:12, 03 May 2010 (UTC)

I really like that generic health pictogram. I'll make it an svg when I get a chance: it would be easy and worthwhile. As for the factory.svg, I'd be happy to see any sketches you come up with: could you please link to them from the discussion page of that image and drop me a reminder here so that I notice? --Slashme (talk) 19:17, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

OK, I'll post any ideas for the factory.svg image. For the moment dough, I'm still working on the locomotive-images, and this will still take up all my time for atleast a week. Also, I think working on the open design-water heater variant would be most beneficial at the moment. Once this is done, we can get to this image. Note btw that I also posted a request for a new picture for the renewable energy template; see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Renewable_energy_sources#Template_image . I already posted an idea on how to construct this image, and this will be more easy to draw in practice than the new factory image. KVDP (talk) 06:46, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

Just finished up on all of my images. Here are some ideas for the new factory.svg image:

• either the factory-image in the image I made (see File:Operation_of_Regenerative_economy.JPG) can be used

I have already said why I dislike this one: Any ordinary person seeing this would have no idea what it means, and certainly wouldn't see it as a representation of a generic factory. --Slashme (talk) 15:22, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

• or the image is made something of an industrial-era plant (not quite sure how to do this; something like File:Savery-engine.jpg ); could perhaps feature some silo's, ...

The Savery-engine picture takes me quite a while to figure out what it is, even in colour.

(talk) 15:27, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

• or the image is changed to something totally different, ie an electronics assembly warehouse , industrial arm robot-line (see Fred's/my image at File:Simplified robottypes.svg , ... The reason why this is possible is that the image represents a factory, while in fact its used in the industry template. An option would offcourse also be to have 2 seperate images, 1 updating the factory (ie to electronics assembly warehouse or not) and an other one as an image for industry. KVDP (talk) 08:03, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Once again, none of these options would have nearly the same iconic impact as the current one. If I look at the current file, in black and white, it is immediately recognizable as a pictogram. The robot arm on File:Simplified robottypes.svg is completely unrecognizable without an explanation, so it would also not work. --Slashme (talk) 15:27, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

An other idea then; how about we simply use people (or robot arms, but then much more detailed, see http://www.emeraldinsight.com/fig/0870230203003.png ) and simply show a assembly line. If you think about it, an assembly line too is a better representation of industry than a mere building. It can be something like http://www.edupics.com/en-coloring-pictures-pages-photo-assembly-line-i7635.html (an alternative image is with a view from the back, see http://www.clker.com/clipart-16468.html ). As noted in the first paragraph, we will then also still need to maintain the factory image (to be used for other purposes than the template, and since we now already have the "activity"-part imbedded in the industry-image for the template, we can have this as a regular factory, thus without any chimney.

KVDP (talk) 09:49, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

You're going about this the wrong way. There's no reason to change this image at all. What you want is a NEW image for your template to be uploaded under a different name. howcheng {chat} 16:09, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Look into the posts again, the latest ideas would do this, there would only be a small update to the current factory to remove the chimney.

KVDP (talk) 07:13, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

KVDP, Wikimedia Commons is not a forum for the promotion of your political ideas. Please desist. Globbet (talk) 17:00, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Not sure what you mean, political ideas form the core of wikipedia, for there can be no progress in an encyclopedia without collective decision-making.

No change to this image should be made at all. howcheng {chat} 15:42, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

OK, some updates: it seems that we we're initially talking about different templates. The template I was initially referring to that should have the factory image link swapped with something else is the Manufacturing template . Howcheng talked about Company-stub template. Aldough I think that the factory image is also wrong for the company-stub template, my first attention goes to the manufacturing template.

For the manufacturing template, the chimney definitly needs removing, in most factories (ie in Japan, ...), energy isn't produced anymore on-site, both rather off-site, simply brought in via the electricity line. Thus, the only thing a factory is composed off, is the building itself and the tools for the manufacturing (but these are offcourse not visible in the image). I do think that we should have an image for buildings that do have a chimney, but these aren't factories, they're refineries and the exhaust fumes hereof aren't (necessairily) polluting, it can also be simply a chemical gas like CO², O², nitrogen-based gases, ... This new image can then be used for the Chemical processes template(s). I'm thus hoping that someone can start on this image, ie called File:Chemical_processes_icon.svg , the image should have a chimney aswell as silo's shown.

Second, the company-stub template: how about we change this with the image of the Template:Companies law; this image is File:Scale of justice 2.svg .If this isn't accepted, we can make another new file composed of a dollar sign in a house. KVDP (talk) 11:46, 10 June 2010 (UTC)