File talk:Flag of Glasgow.svg

Legitimacy of this flag

Pre-WWI image of the flag – unchanged since mediaeval times – from a cigarette card series. GPinkerton (留言) 23:41, 11 February 2023 (UTC)

An anonymous editor from the English Wikipedia says they're a Glasgow native and pointed out that they've never seen this flag before, and that they checked with the UK Flag Institute to confirm that Glasgow does not have a flag. Now I tried to do some quick searching for myself and cannot find a single external source outside of Commons that references this flag, nor could I find any actual photos of this. I approved that user's edit request to remove the flag from the article for the time being.

To the uploader (@TilmannR) can you please explain where exactly did this flag come from? A bit concerning since this file is in use in quite a number of articles. Thanks. - PritongKandule ^Talk. 18:43, 10 February 2023 (UTC)

@PritongKandule: This flag was an Illustration Workshop request. I believe it's supposed to be a banner of arms, but I'm not an expert in that area. Perhaps @Snow Lion Fenian or @GPinkerton have additional information. TilmannR (留言) 22:31, 11 February 2023 (UTC)

@PritongKandule: The flag is the flag of Glasgow inasmuch as its the heraldic flag of the local authority. A similar case exists with File:Flag of Edinburgh.svg; Edinburgh only has a flag insofar as the city council's flag is the city's flag. The city council is the organization to whom the flag belongs, so the flag is probably only to be seen above the city chambers on some days of the year. The shield with the same design as appears on the banner is well-known in the city and is not at all new. GPinkerton (留言) 22:43, 11 February 2023 (UTC)

A bit of searching finds this Reddit thread "Glasgow has a flag, And there actually a story of how I got this image", in which someone claims to have obtained a photo of the physical flag the council flies. This seems the confirm the flag is indeed legitimate (rather than existing only on paper) and in current use. GPinkerton (留言) 22:59, 11 February 2023 (UTC)

See also picture (File:Glasgow - Flags of All Nations - Recruit Little Cigars - (1909-1911) 01.jpg) GPinkerton (留言) 23:36, 11 February 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the responses, they're much appreciated! Delving deeper into some discussions on the vexillology subreddit, I encountered this comment explaining that heraldic flag/banners like this are registered/protected under Scottish law which technically makes them 'official.'

So if I understand it right, the Glasgow City Council is an armiger which means they have a coat of arms that they are entitled to depict in the form of a flag. As far as Scotland's law is concerned, this is as "official" as it can get.

Is this correct? And is this practice widely known enough in Scotland/the UK that I can reinstate the flag without the need for a citeable secondary source to confirm it? As an average editor/pending changes reviewer with no expertise in vexillology, I would feel more comfortable if I have at least something concrete to back it up (or have other editors chime in for a consensus.) PritongKandule (留言) 09:57, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

@PritongKandule: your understanding accords exactly with mine. What might be best would be to reinstate the flag with the qualifier "flag of Glasgow City Council" or "banner of arms of Glasgow City Council", since as you rightly say, the council alone is the armiger and everyone else is therefore officially banned by ancient law from "using" it (since no-one can "use" anyone else's arms). You could refer to (although it doesn't mention Glasgow specifically) Graham Bartram's British Flags and Emblems, page 64:

All the cities, and most of the towns, in the UK have coats-of-arms, and many of them use banner of these arms on their civic buildings and on the official car of their Mayor, Provost, Lord Mayor or Lord Provost. As with armorial county flags they are technically for the sole use of the city or town's council, but in some cases they are used more widely. Many councils also use their logo as a basis for a flag.

The book then illustrates the heraldic banners of Aberdeen, Belfast, Cardiff, Edinburgh, Birmingham, Durham, Lincoln, (on pg. 65:) the City of London, St Albans, Stirling, Portsmouth, and York. It would be hard to argue that Glasgow's case is any different. The lord provost's scandalously expensive official car doesn't look to have flag attachments, but an older "G0"-registered car did, and while the details of the flag aren't really visible in the photo seen here (2nd photo), it would appear to be the Glasgow City banner of arms. GPinkerton (留言) 14:32, 12 February 2023 (UTC)