File talk:Flag of Serbia (1882–1918).svg

 

Garish colors

User:Savasampion Please stop changing the colors on Serbian flag files to these ugly garish shades. There are already de-facto established shades on Wikimedia for historical Serbian flags without official standardization. It's better if they all use the same ones. Examples:

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--Bongo4561 (留言) 17:46, 6 December 2021 (UTC)

First of all, those colors are from the socialist, that is. post-socialist period. They worked with pallets that befit communist states and 20th century states. In the 19th century, Serbia, as an independent state, used dark red - lighter blue (steel-extinct until 1835) and white. The rest is the fruit of imagination and improvisation in the 21st century. Look this: http://singidunum-online.com/odlikovanja-srbija-i-kraljevina-jugoslavija-medalje-g00950-srebrna-medalja-za-hrabrost-1912prvi-balkanski-rat-p-5564.html, https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/sr/7/7a/%D0%A1%D1%80%D0%BF%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8_%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%B7%D1%83%D0%BB%D0%B0%D1%82_%D1%83_%D0%9F%D1%80%D0%B8%D1%88%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B8.jpg https://www.vs.rs/image/unit_content/image/A1BBC792DBCF11E69B100050568F6690/1/0/0/gvozdeni-puk-zastava.jpg and

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--Savasampion (留言) 21:09, 6 December 2021 (UTC)

I can't get much information about color from a greyscale image. But even then, there is no point guessing what the shade is because it varied from specimen to specimen. This applies both to the Kingdom's flag and the socialist period flag. Standardized shades did not exist until recently. What I was trying to say in my first message is that there are already *arbitrarily chosen* shades used on Wikimedia for historical Serbian flags and that it makes sense to use them for consistency. Bongo4561 (留言) 15:08, 8 December 2021 (UTC)

Hey, we can agree that the colors of the flag will be like the colors of Republika Srpska.https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-8PR9ckW9Awo/WAJ3q5llAYI/AAAAAAAAFRo/Sye05Mj1C1IZ6vAQRDYJNp_8nHooqiXpACLcB/s1600/1912%2Bmedalja%2Bza%2Bhrabrost%2Bsrebrna%2BA.jpg They match the colors of the Kingdom.

The dark blue color was invented by post-communists to distinguish between Serbia and Montenegro. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3170416.stm I understood that you should use the same colors for all Serbian flags, but I think that is wrong because the fact is that the colors have changed.

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--Savasampion (留言) 19:54, 8 December 2021 (UTC)

User:Savasampion"The dark blue color was invented by post-communists to distinguish between Serbia and Montenegro." This doesn't make sense. The situation with the "Montenegrin blue" and "Serbian blue" is a result of the Principality of Montenegro having the ambiguous word "plavetna" in its constitution to describe the flag. The Montenegrin (DPS etc.) side propagated their supposed light blue color being different.

"the fact is that the colors have changed" That's just wrong. They've always been red blue and white. It wasn't "red #EC1616, blue #1E26AF, white #FFFEDA in this time period, then red #F22540 blue #312187, white #FFF4E2 in that time period, etc.".

Here are some period examples of the flag using darker shades. https://www.czipm.org/Grafika/Foto/mosorin-predavanje-15.jpg http://politikin-zabavnik.co.rs/pz/sites/default/files/3268/5%2C2.jpg

The established Wikimedia shades are just as correct as any other (but more pleasant than the ones you chose). Please leave them be.

--Bongo4561 (留言) 12:47, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

I agree with Bongo, standardized shades did not exist until relatively recently and it's pointless to change the files to uglier shades when there's already an established de facto shade that's used on Commons that is aesthetically pleasing and as accurate as any other shades. Di (they-them) (留言) 22:25, 8 December 2021 (UTC)

Those flags are flags from Voivodeship of Serbia. The flag of Obrenovic is not the flag of the state, but of the dynasty. Not to mention how dimly lit it is.

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You can see here, as well as on orders and regimental flags, that blue is brighter than red. The people believe that the red color on the flag of Serbia represents the blood shed for the country, so bloody (dark) red #bb0a1e , blue freedom and infinity to which one aspires ( probably #1e52ba), while white represents mother's milk that feeds strong Serbian children. Which blue matches this red?

Romanticist intepretations of color symbolism are irrelevant to the discussion, not to mention completely separated from reality (Pan-Slavic colors are derived from the Russian flag, which was derived from the Dutch flag).

The reason the blue appears brighter than the red is that orthochromatic film was much more widespread than panchromatic film in that time period. You can read about the difference here: https://thedarkroom.com/orthochromatic-vs-panchromatic-film-a-photo-comparison/ . Basically, orthochromatic film is very sensitive to blue light, and doesn't capture red light very well. This results in blue light being easily overexposed (lighter), while red is rendered almost black.

Here are some examples.

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  Slovene tricolor (white, blue, red)
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  Swedish flag (gold on blue)

Also, take a look at this photo of Slovene athlete Leon Štukelj with the flag of the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes on his shirt: https://siol.net/media/img/a3/5d/20195d54b1af7c91d9fe-leon-stukelj.jpeg

Had these photos been taken with panchromatic film, they would more closely replicate the luminosity of the colors, and the blues would appear darker than the reds. I hope this will settle the issue.

P.S. please sign your posts

--Bongo4561 (留言) 12:22, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

Also, please take care that your files are not bloated. For example, your version of this flag is 1,17MB (!!!) while the one I reverted to is 658KB. In your file the coat of arms has way too many nodes, much more than is needed to get the same shape. I'm assuming you simply took an existing file (which is bloated) and made your modifications. Look for better optimized files to use/modify, or make your own if you are good at vectorizing.

--Bongo4561 (留言) 12:37, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for the answer as well as the additional knowledge. However, in this video in occupied Serbia https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zC1lZxX6 GU&t=40s , you can see a flag where blue is lighter than red. It was filmed in the 1940s, so I don't know if it's orthochromatic technology or something else.

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If you don't agree with me, even if the colors are from the 2004 flag. This flag was probably naval ensign, so it would agree.

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--Savasampion (留言) 01:04, 11 December 2021 (UTC)