File talk:ISS insignia.svg

Source?

The provided source is not an official one. Was this ever a real insignia?

I question it because there is a large pacific landmass depicted.Nsae Comp (對話) 00:13, 8 September 2021 (UTC)

See discussion at: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:International_Space_Station#Insignia_validity Nsae Comp (對話) 18:48, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

Here a copy of that discussion up to now when it was concluded:

Insignia validity

Hi there, I have been taking out the insignia because it is only used by TShirt sites, and the likes, and not any official source. If you can find it to be used anywhere officially I am glad to keep it. Until then evidence dictates that it is not valid and imho needs to be taken out.

PS: if you can find out what secret Captain Nemo continent is drawn in the insignia into the pacific, then you get a space kiss. Nsae Comp (talk) 21:53, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

The best evidence I can find with minimal effort is this ebay item: https://www.ebay.com/itm/115131441618 The photos clearly show an embroidered patch and the seller claimed it was vintage and authentic. Of course that's not exactly a WP:RS.

Oh, and here's another source for the patch where it is still available, claiming it is "official": https://thespacestore.com/collections/international-space-station/products/international-space-station-official-patch (— 𝐬𝐝𝐒𝐝𝐬 — - talk) 02:11, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

Well, if its only to be found at such sites, then lets take it out? Nsae Comp (talk) 10:09, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

If you ask me someone made this and somehow everyone else is using it for their TShirt etc sales, and we are supporting this by sustaining this false insignia. Besides, does anyone of you think that that pacific mystery continent was put there by NASA or ESA? Nsae Comp (talk) 10:12, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

PS: I guess the creator wanted to make the Americas visible and chose to show clumsily Mesoamerica, underestimating or ignoeing the size of the pacific. Nsae Comp (talk) 10:16, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

Last but not least: I would suggest that we can take it out even if it is genuine, because as long as we have no reliable source it should go. When someone finds a reliable source we can reinsert it afterall. Nsae Comp (talk) 10:19, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

Anyhow, why do we have to have to images in the insignia section, and not just keep the one that we have a proper official reference. Nsae Comp (talk) 10:21, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

I’ve spent the last few days searching high and low, far and wide on the internet and the space agency websites for any hints as to the origins of this logo, with nothing to show for it. I also have an email out to the webmaster of Spacefacts to see if they have any details of the history. But the best I can tell is that it was created as tribute design that would be free of the legal encumbrances of an official agency artwork. However, and this is why it’s always a good idea to really dive into these discussions, if the original design wasn’t created by NASA and it wasn’t created by a Wiki user (we know it wasn’t), our usage without a proper license a violation of the rights of the original designer and therefore doesn’t just belong on this page, it shouldn’t be in use on any of the 134 pages across the various Wiki projects. RickyCourtney (talk) 15:14, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

Exactly my experience after years of coming back to this and looking into it everywhere. Lets take it out then. Nsae Comp (talk) 18:46, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

Regarding Spacefacts: the image is being used there since 2006 [1], a year later than on the commons. So I guess they have it from the commons as well. So I wrote the uploader (User:Nuno Tavares) of the 2005 version, but since they have not been active since 2017 I am not expecting an answer. They uploaded the image in 2005 with other ISS images within minutes [2], so it would seem that there is an older source and it is not their creation. ... So again I must say we have to take it out. Even if it was originally from NASA, NASA has not used it to our knowledge possibly since 2005. The other emblem in use in the article though has been. So please lets take this one that is up for discussion out and if someone comes up with a genuine source later on then we can reinstate it. Nsae Comp (talk) 20:02, 1 October 2024 (UTC)/Nsae Comp (talk) 20:15, 1 October 2024 (UTC)/Nsae Comp (talk) 20:28, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

I have now found three instance where NASA has used this image. All three are very miniscule and barely identifiable. Most importantly though none are older than 2005. So I would think that they were taken from the commons. Here the links:

https://www.tineye.com/search/8cf8f4748e82815e5e573f653dd07042e2a6275d?domain=nasa.gov&sort=crawl_date&order=asc&page=1

Though I now did find an older version than the one originally uploaded to the commons. On a now offline, but still through the way back machine viewable site the image is in use there already in 2001 (!). Most interesting about this site is, that is uses a second version of the image as well, that is significantly different and not found anywhere else. So I am suspecting at my current state of research that they created it, particularly because they seem to have created lots of montages and were a site dedicated to the ISS.

https://web.archive.org/web/20010302035149/http://iss.astronet.pl/

Here the alternate version on this site appearing in the archived sites in 2003:

https://web.archive.org/web/20030401032520/http://iss.astronet.pl:80/ Nsae Comp (talk) 21:13, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

Just for the sake of completeness, I read somewhere that this logo/insignia was based (perhaps loosely) on a prior logo/insignia used for the Space Station Freedom project. RickyCourtney (talk) 21:59, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

Interesting theory, but on a quick search I can not find any insignia for Freedom that resemble this. ... For my part, finding this 2001 site from Poland gives me the idea that this insignia design might be one used in Russia, and not by NASA as maybe falsely claimed. But thats a rather bold theory. Nsae Comp (talk) 23:10, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for taking it out. Nsae Comp (talk) 23:11, 1 October 2024 (UTC)