File talk:Majapahit Expansion.gif

Some recommendation on the expansion and the crumbling of the territories.

Hello, I just wanted to give some opinions regarding the territory of Majapahit who might inspire you to update the map according to the newfound sources. I am aware that no year was shown in the GIF, but here I put it so that you may visualize more precisely when the event happened.

• Malay Peninsula

First, let's start at Malay Peninsula. During the time of Wikramawardhana, Malay Peninsula was no longer a Majapahit territory, but instead a Siamese (Ayutthaya) tributary. This is noted in the History of Ming Dynasty and other sources that is compiled into one book (Notes on the Malay Archipelago and Malacca Compiled from Chinese Sources), where before there was Malacca, there was no king and the area pays tribute to the Siamese.

The dissapearance of the red mark on the whole Malay Peninsula should also begin immediately and completely after Hayam Wuruk's death in 1389 because of the independence declaration and the consequent Ayutthayan expansion, in which Wikramawardhana is still engaged in the Paregreg Civil War, and thus cannot response to the new independent kingdoms in the Malay Peninsula. Wikramawardhana only started taking notice on the west side of the archipelago after the war was won, where he sacked Temasek at 1409.

• Sumatra

The area to the west coast (Pagarruyung/Minangkabau land) should also start dissapearing during Hayam Wuruk's reign, in which Adityawarman finally sent out to pay tribute and is recognized by the Ming as their tributary in 1375. This was not the case with Palembang in 1370s, where Hayam Wuruk even goes as far to kill the Chinese envoy sent by the Ming to recognize Palembang as a tributary of Ming, and Ming recognized Javanese supremacy in the region.

On the GIF, it was listed that Sumatra as a whole was conquered first before Majapahit focused on the east, most notably Bali. This was incorrect, as the invasion of Bali was finished around 1343, while Majapahit's attack on Samudera Pasai only started at the very least on 1349.

Also during Wikramawardhana, at least on 1416 (after the founding of Malacca Sultanate), new independent kingdoms have risen up on the northern coast of Sumatra, such as Aceh, Aru, and Samudra, which was no longer noted "under the supremacy of Java" in the chronicles during Ming period, and as such the red marks should also start dissapearing during the formation of Malacca Sultanate, leaving Indragiri, Jambi and Palembang as the only Majapahit territory at this point.

The remaining few territories in Sumatra, which is Indragiri, Jambi and Palembang dissapeared much, much later into the period. Indragiri was the first to disappear, since it was given to Malacca.

Jambi and Palembang was still under Majapahit rule until finally taken by Demak in between 1478-1498. Accordingly, The northern coasts of Java where Demak is located should disappear earlier than Jambi and Palembang in Sumatra. This was noted by Tome Pires in Suma Oriental, where he said that Jambi and Palembang used to have its own king and is loyal to the "kafir" lord of Java, and is taken by Demak when they declared war for a long time.

• Java and Bali

I really didn't know why are you showing that West Java / Sunda-Galuh was briefly, even for a millisecond, was taken by Majapahit. The Bubat incident never really was a form of confirmation of Majapahit's rule over West Java. The royal family was massacred, yes, but the area of the kingdom was never under Majapahit's rule. I hope this can be fixed so that it doesn't cause misunderstanding.

Beside, the Bubat Incident happened at 1357, which is still during the very early period of Hayam Wuruk's reign, and the maximum extent of Majapahit, as we know, was noted in 1365 in Negarakertagama. Majapahit's expansion is still not yet as thorough during 1357 compared to 1365, in which where you put the Sunda occupation happened after most of the areas mentioned by Negarakertagama are conquered.

Now unto Demak, as noted on the above, Northern coast of Java, particularly in Demak and some of its surrounding should cede first before Jambi and Palembang.

During the final moments of Majapahit, you marked Blambangan and Bali as the last stronghold of Majapahit. This was incorrect. Majapahit's new capital after being repelled by Raden Patah's army was in Daha(Kediri), and not on the eastern-most side of Java. Majapahit land at the time still includes Tuban as its territory as noted by Tome Pires. Blambangan and Bali was already independent during the last years of Majapahit, and as such, the declining of Majapahit should really ended with the red marks at Daha(Kediri), instead of slowly disappearing into Blambangan and finally Bali

Bali was never the legal successor of Majapahit. That title goes to Demak. Bali was only a spiritual successor of Majapahit civilization, but never the last area listed as Majapahit's territory before it finally declined.

• Eastern Part of Nusantara

And at last, in the GIF you showed that all of Sumatran territory of Majapahit disappeared first before the eastern part of Indonesia, most notably the Maluku Islands. This was incorrect, coming to what I wrote above already where Jambi and Palembang is still Majapahit's territory up until taken by Demak. Tome Pires on his book Suma Oriental also said that "the Javanese said they used to rule Maluku a long time ago". The book was written sometimes around 1512 - 1515.

This means that the information of Demak takeover of Jambi and Palembang is a lot more recent than the loss of Maluku from Majapahit's suzerainty. And as such, the Maluku islands should disappear from the GIF earlier than Jambi and Palembang, probably around Wikramawardhana reign too.

I cannot create such GIFs and i think the work is beautiful and the intention is good, and as such I wish that you would correct some of the mistakes I mentioned above to create a more historically accurate representation of Majapahit's expansion. Cheers

Thank you for your suggestions, corrections, and ideas, I really appreciate it. Unfortunately I'm kinda busy right now, I really want to correct and perfecting the GIF map if I got spare time. Thank you.Gunkarta (留言) 17:29, 1 March 2020 (UTC)