File talk:Varangian routes.png

Вопрос: Карту какого времени вы использовали для размещения объектов ?? (Question: What time map did you use to place objects?)

Map Geography

The map has apart from correct area descriptions also rather suspicious ones like "Germany", "Italy" or "Croatia" etc. which all didn't exist at that time. That should be changed for more historical accuracy. --Mendrisiostar (留言) 21:28, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

August 16, 2023 changes : explanation

In one hand, there are Byzantine sources which mention the Vlachs, secondly it is not because other sources do not mention them, that they did not exist. In the other hand, the Hungarian point of view which affirms that absence of proof is proof of absence, that this group disappeared for a thousand years (between 275 and 1275), and that it would have been the only one, among all the peoples of the region, to not being able to cross the Balkans, the Danube and the Carpathians (while they were nomadic shepherds), is unlikely. --Claude Zygiel (留言) 18:26, 16 August 2023 (UTC) — 以上未签名的留言是由该用户加入的： Moodylo333 (留言 • 贡献) 12:18, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

For more historical accuracy

Our friend OrionNimrod consider the Hungarian theory according to which upon their arrival, the Magyars found an desert country and were then the only inhabitants west of the Carpathians and north of the Danube, as the only valid (according with Eduard Rössler, Romänische Studien : untersuchungen zur älteren Geschichte Rumäniens, Leipzig, 1871 and Béla Köpeczi (dir.), Erdély rövid története, Akadémiai Kiadó, Budapest 1989, ISBN 963 05 5901 3) and revert this map only towards versions conforming to this theory alone, which dominates the cartography thanks to Hungarian activism. He considered that all historians who support other theories (below) are quacks or incompetent, and that the adjective "Vlachs" is anachronistic until the founding of the principality of Wallachia because it has no meaning because according to him, this Romance-speaking population did not exist before that: it's like saying that the Italians only appeared with the Risorgimento, and have no history before that. But this does not justify that this map must show only this opinion.
This historic atlas shows that populations speaking Eastern Romance languages ​​existed between the withdrawal of the Roman Empire (276) and the appearance of Wallachia (1330): Lothar Bertold (dir.) & 15 others, Atlas zur Geschichte Band 1, VEB Hermann Haack, Geographisch-cartographische Anstalt Gotha, Leipzig 1973, pages 20, 23, 25, 26. These books confirm this: Kristian Sandfeld, Linguistique balkanique ; problèmes et résultats, Champion, Coll. linguistique de la Société linguistique de Paris, Paris, 1930; Nicolae Iorga, Teodor Capidan & Constantin Giurescu, History of the Romanians, Romanian Academy publ.; Alexandru Avram, Mircea Babeş, Lucian Badea, Mircea Petrescu-Dîmboviţa & Alexandru Vulpe (dir.), Istoria românilor: moştenirea timpurilor îndepărtate («History of the Romanians: the ancient times») vol.1, Enciclopedică publ., Bucharest 2001, (ISBN 973-45-0382-0). These books confirm that the disappearance of an entire linguistic group for a thousand years is impossible and that the historical facts cannot be reduced to a single, exclusive and extreme vision: Roumen Daskalov, Alexander Vezenkov, Entangled Histories of the Balkans - Shared Pasts, Disputed Legacies Vol. III in Balkan Studies Library, Brill 2015, (ISBN 9004290362), pp. 289-316; Alain Du Nay, André Du Nay et Árpád Kosztin, Transylvania and the Rumanians, Matthias Corvinus Publishing, 1997, 337 p. (ISBN 978-1-882785-09-4), p. 15; Olivier Gillet, L'histoire de la Transylvanie: le différend historiographique hungaro-roumain, in Revue belge de philologie et d'histoire, 1997, tome 75, fasc. 2, p. 457–485 and Georges Castellan, « Quelques problèmes d'histoire entre Hongrois et Roumains », in Melikov zbornik : Slovenci v zgodovini in njihovi srednjeevropski sosedje, Založba ZRC, Ljubljana, 2001, p.153–162.
For all these reasons, it would be more neutral and more encyclopedic to reestablish the version of Johannnes89 of June 26, 2023 which excludes neither the Magyars, nor the other populations whose existence is admitted by most historians (except Hungarians). For our knowledge, see also Dimitri Kitsikis, La Montée du national-bolchevisme dans les Balkans («The growth of the National-bolchevism in the Balkans»), Avatar publ., Paris 2008.--Moodylo333 (留言) 12:18, 4 May 2024 (UTC)