Category talk:Data

About the parent categories

Dear Josh, It looks like we struggle with the parent categories. There are two now, Category:Computing and Category:Information technology, and I think we need a third one about the content or meaning of data.

• For me Data is a very basic thing. We had them before the computer era, for instance on cards and lists in archives and libraries. So I even wonder whether these two current parents are correct. But in this computer era, it might be logical for most of the Commons users, so I let it go.
• But we do miss a third one, about the content. "Data" is the first step to come to "information", followed by "knowledge" and "wisdom". For me Data is a source of information. That is why I added Category:Information sources. Why did you removed it?

JopkeB (talk) 07:28, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

@JopkeB: I am not at ease with these parents either. Data is information in the form of multiple discrete values. Technically it should be arranged for use in automated processing, but in more general terms it is just a synonym for information. Thus makes it difficult to call it an information source since it is information itself. However, I suppose that parent can be restored if you feel strongly about it. I do get it that 'data' existed prior to computing, and thus I'm not sold on that parent either. I guess what I see is data being the intersection of information and structure/organization, so would be happy with parent categories that better reflect this. Josh (talk) 07:50, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

@Joshbaumgartner: I do not agree with you that data is the same as or a sysnonym for information. Data are merely facts (in an nutshell). Information only arises when someone interpretes the data and/or gives a meaning to a combination of data. Stand alone data do not say anything. They only can get a meaning and become information when they for instance are compared (year by year), combined and/or put into graphs.

For instance: the awareness of climate change has been based upon thousand or perhaps millions/billions of data about temperature, precipitation and natural disasters from all over the world. Scientists compared and combined these data and then saw several rising trends in temperature, precipitation and natural disasters (information). All these trends together has led to the statement/claim of climate change; as long as that statement/claim has not been refuted, it might considered to be knowledge.

Yes, I do feel strongly about it (here I explained why) and would like to restore Category:Information sources as a parent.

Data being the intersection of information and structure/organization is an interesting thought. I have to think about it. JopkeB (talk) 09:41, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

@JopkeB: I've restored Category:Information sources. As for data being a 1-for-1 synonym for information, at least within our scope for Commons categories, I agree that is incorrect--I was just trying to say that in common parlance, people often do use it as such. Instead here our Category:Data is a category for the more technical definition of being a structured set of data points.

I think your analysis re:climate change is interesting. I would posit that a datum that says the temperature at a particular place and time was 15 deg. C, that would be a piece of information. However, as you illustrate, having data (a collection of such datums (sic)) is a source of new information when put through a process of analysis. So thus information can be a source for more information. Problematic to try and model this relationship in Commons categories since loops are a definite COM:CAT violation, but I can get data being an information source.

Interesting note: the blurb for information (Q11028) is "that which informs; the answer to a question; that from which data and knowledge can be derived" which would indicate that information is a data source, as opposed to (or at least in addition to) data being an information source. Chicken and egg much? Now a "data set" would certainly be a source for information (one gets data (information) from a data set). Just interesting bits I've seen looking into this more. Josh (talk) 10:28, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

My conclusion is that first of all we need a clear definition/description for Category:Data on Commons. Would that be (1) a broad definition including all kinds of data, from hand written to digital sets of data, or just (2) the digital ones? Perhaps this question should be solved on a Discussion page and not here. Do you agree? JopkeB (talk) 04:46, 24 December 2022 (UTC)