Commons:Bureaucrats' noticeboard

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Bureaucrats' work area (archive)
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To request to become a GWToolset user or a translation administrator.
Other resources: Need administrator assistance? See the administrators' noticeboard. Need help? Try the FAQ, or the Help desk! Have an idea or suggestion? Tell us at the Village pump! Need a checkuser? See the CU request page!
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Archive 1 Archive 2 Archive 3
Archive 4

This is a place where users can communicate with bureaucrats, or bureaucrats with one another. Please refer to the links above for specific bureaucrat requests.

Need help[edit]

Something very odd is going on at here and here which are related to this. As Commons has no dispute resolution board, hope you can manage it. Jee 02:19, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

If we really have lost Magog the Ogre, that is really unfortunate. I can think of few other users who have done more good for the project, I have used his tools too often to count. Kelly (talk) 03:22, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
Although the actual problem has partly settled after initative of User:AFBorchert (Thank you!!) we again see the bureaucrats' presence is far from what could be considered acceptable. Does anybody agree that we need should try to add some crats that are generally more active and more involved in daily issues, and remove those who are not doing crat actions at all? --Krd 07:18, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
If you want to nominate a good candidate, I don't think anyone would argue that there is no work for them to do! --99of9 (talk) 07:21, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
PS I'm closing the reconfirmation now btw. --99of9 (talk) 07:30, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
+1 to Krd. What happened now is only a "quick and dirty fix" as we lost one hard working admin forever and another for two months. We need a better solution so that active crats or a new Arbcom can handle such issues without that much disruption and edit war. (And if crats are only supposed to archive discussions, there is no need of more active crats.) Jee 07:55, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
+1 to what Krd said. As suggested below by Yann, it is time for a sustained campaign of admin recruitment together but I think we also need some more bureaucrats, checkusers and oversighters. A project of this size needs more than a handful of each, preferably double digits, and preferably people that are going to be active at a wider range of times. Green Giant (talk) 10:55, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
+1. We have a very good candidate for bureaucrat if he will agree to accept the nomination...-- Geagea (talk) 10:59, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
+2. Agree with the people above, especially Geagea. :D Jianhui67 talkcontribs 11:02, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
+3 to Geagea's suggestion. Green Giant (talk) 11:03, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
AFBorchert has only 3.016 admin actions (trusted here on commons and dewik admin), but i prefer someone with moor admin actions (my personal view) :-) --Steinsplitter (talk) 14:07, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
Apart from that, this crat Special:Log/Kanonkas is making every 6 months his ~5 sysop actions for non loosing flags since 2011... --Steinsplitter (talk) 14:23, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
Steinsplitter There are more users that qualify as crat. You are certainly among them. AFBorchert acts actually as a bureaucrat without being bureaucrat. Not only in this case. I do not agree that the amount of admin actions is the most important issue (according to your list the most qualify person is Fastily...).-- Geagea (talk) 01:13, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
I can see a lot of good candidates while checking last years activities; Steinsplitter, JuTa, Taivo, Ellin Beltz... to name a few. I avoided people involved some recent issues and people alredy have some extra rights. As crats need to disclose their identity to WMF, I don't know how many of are willing. It will me nice we have 2-3 new crats as we have a few sleepy crats. Two crats recently resigned. Jee 03:25, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
No, crats do not need to disclose their identity to the WMF. I personally prefer to support candidates who are open about their identity, but it is not a requirement anywhere. --99of9 (talk) 03:54, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for correcting me. Jee 04:19, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

As I mentioned above, I would also welcome good 'crat candidates. However, I would caution that this is unlikely to prevent issues similar to the recent blow up. It is worth remembering that the entire thing can be traced back to a disagreement over whether "symbols" should be a subcategory or sibling category of "culture". A valid, reasonable, and good faith disagreement. At every stage users (including admins etc) magnified, wikilawyered and/or personalized the issues. Anyone who did this should accept some degree of responsibility. Some were intending to take the heat out, but by unilaterally (sometimes as a perceived involved party) restoring/reverting/unblocking/reversing other decisions, they opened new avenues for conflict. IMO the solution is not new levels of authority ("arbcom"), more heavy handedness from those with existing user rights ("deal with the trolls" / "more active crats"). It's an individual and cultural issue of respect, tolerance, helpfulness, humility, maturity, calmness, carefulness... None of these things can be bossed into us by authorities or policy. They must be nurtured and modelled by all. In the difficult cases where rights (editing/rollback/admin/crat) of long term editors should be removed, "decisiveness" is not a positive - we need to thoroughly follow policy and wait for consensus, and if we are the person losing rights we need the humility to respect others wishes and step back. --99of9 (talk) 04:44, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

Having said all that, I think the general workload pressure on deleting admins is so high that it was a contributing factor, so recruiting more admins would probably help, although only indirectly. --99of9 (talk) 04:46, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
Well said 99of9, I think you hit the nail on the head (if I can use such a violence-laden idiom!). Arbcoms are useful on Wikipedias where article content can be immensely contentious. Disputes on Commons are of a different nature e.g. authorship, source, licensing of images, partially because we don't like to decide which files should be used elsewhere. We need a Commons-specific method of advice, mediation and conflict resolution, i.e. less formal than an arbcom, which some users perceive as being a tribunal rather than a mediator. There is a small ray of sunshine which could have avoided a lot of the tension of the last few days. It is important that all users try their best to calmly discuss all disputes between themselves and request neutral third-party mediation where necessary. Personally I think this would be best done by burocrats, which is why we need active crats but equally I think we have far fewer crats than we actually need. English Wikipedia is a project of similar complexity to Commons, yet they have 30+ crats, 40+ checkusers, 50+oversighters, although obviously some will have multiple permissions and doubtless there will be inactive users amongst them. In comparison Commons has a total of 18 users with these permissions, which is why I think we need at least 15-20 people in each group. Green Giant (talk) 09:35, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

There's work to be done[edit]

When I recently resigned as an admin and CU, it was mostly because I figured I'd just make the Russavia situation worse and cause more drama at that time. I certainly didn't think I'd see Fastily leave as he has. I know what a hole that leaves here in general, and especially when it comes to deletions.

There's no way to replace both of us right now in the area of deletions. This also creates an issue for me because I file a large number of DRs, and do a lot of tagging for CSD/permission. I wouldn't feel right piling up DRs and copyvio taggings without Fastily around, thereby increasing the already heavy load on our current admins.

So I'm here to request my sysop right back. I'll handle 10,000+ deletions per month with few errors, and I'll stay away from Russavia and stay out of the WMF's way on that. I'll stay away from heated discussions and only perform simple non-controversial blocks of vandals, copyvio uploaders, and LTAs like Beals and Wikinger.

I know I'm a bit flaky, and I make decisions without thinking sometimes, but I really do care about this place, and Commons needs an experienced admin to help with deletions. If Fastily hadn't retired, I would've gone on doing my sorting and reviewing, but he's decided to move on and I think I can help fill the void. Thanks for your time. Face-blush.svg INeverCry 09:07, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

Symbol support vote.svg Support, if INeverCry really wants to take that burden. Please do not exploit yourself. --Túrelio (talk) 10:07, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
Pictogram voting comment.svg Comment Hi, Are you sure you want to come back again? I am not opposing, but you should take care of your health first. I will do my share of admin work, but I think that we can afford two or three months of backlog for sometime, until we recruit more admins. We have had that before, and even much worse, and the project didn't died. What we need is a proactive campaign of admin recruitment, not you coming back in until you are exhausted.
We should recruit admins with a progressive training: we could accept admins with less knowledge, and ask them first to retrain deletions to simple issues, until they gain a deeper knowledge of complex copyright issues. This has become the standard way to get a driving license in France (conduite accompagnée - accompanied driving). My 2 Rs. Regards, Yann (talk) 10:09, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
I can keep the backlogs down without overworking myself; it was the spambots, socks, and drama that weighed me down in the past. I just need to use my time more wisely and not try to do everything. As for recruiting more admins, I've done quite a few RFAs for other editors, and I would continue with that. It's easier to convince people that adminship is an enjoyable and rewarding thing when you're an admin yourself though. It's also better in that you can offer direct guidance to new admins. INeverCry 20:50, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
OK, as you like. Yann (talk) 09:12, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
Symbol support vote.svg Support, Fastily was a hard werker and INC's help is really needed (and the other admins also). There is enough to do without dealing with the issue of Russavia. -- Geagea (talk) 10:41, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
Symbol support vote.svg Support But please make sure you take care of your health as health is the more important than Commons. You cannot do anything on Commons when your health is bad. Jianhui67 talkcontribs 10:44, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
Symbol support vote.svg Support But don't burn out again. If such a situation happens again, just switch out the PC. Best :-) --Steinsplitter (talk) 11:01, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Symbol support vote.svg Support return of INC as an admin and MASS RECRUITMENT of more admins, preferably in batches. I'd also be happier with INC doing 1,000 actions and be healthy rather than 10,000 but stressed out. Green Giant (talk) 11:01, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Symbol oppose vote.svg Oppose Nope, I'd rather we struggled along without INC and Fastily, getting more administrators through RfA and the rest of us up to speed doing a few more actions each week. The last thing we need to be doing is relying on INC to fill the void left by Fastily. I'd not be completely opposed to restoring administrator rights if they're just going to potter about and do a little bit here and a little bit there like the rest of us. Nick (talk) 11:06, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
    • I certainly wouldn't be doing the workload I used to. I overworked myself in the past plain and simple. I have some ideas on how to avoid that now. INeverCry 20:50, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Symbol support vote.svg Support Jee 11:21, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Pictogram voting comment.svg Comment as a non-Bureaucrat – Haven't we been through this before? Isn't this all happening too soon? INeverCry is a nice guy and all, but I'm concerned that history will repeat itself yet again. We might be having this same conversation a year from now. Here's the dilemma: I expect commitment from our sysops, yet at the same time, I want INeverCry to take it easy for his own good. Can INeverCry commit himself to these tasks while not pushing himself too hard? If past experiences is anything to go by, then it's likely that he'll burn himself out again, and I don't believe that it's right or healthy to put INeverCry through all that again, especially so soon. We should place our feelings and sympathies aside, and use logic to determine what's best for INeverCry, and logic says that repeating the same mistakes and expecting different results is nuts. --Michaeldsuarez (talk) 11:44, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
    • Fastily retiring happened very unexpectedly, hence my post here. I always enjoyed being an admin and helping out. The mistake I made was involving myself in needless drama and confrontation, and not using my time as wisely as I could've. Commons is a learning process, and I just happen to learn in a somewhat muddled way. But I do learn. INeverCry 20:50, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
      • Alright, that's fair. Good luck, and enjoy. --Michaeldsuarez (talk) 10:57, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
  • No objections. --EugeneZelenko (talk) 14:04, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Symbol support vote.svg Support With you as admin, things can get back on track. 1989 17:48, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Symbol support vote.svg Support --Walter Siegmund (talk) 19:29, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Symbol support vote.svg Support absolutely! Ellin Beltz (talk) 07:22, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Symbol strong support vote.svg Strong support BUT: Only if you take it easy! Otherwise I'll block you for a week or two once a month Clin --Hedwig in Washington (mail?) 07:58, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Symbol support vote.svg Support but please listen to all those people and take it easy! --El Grafo (talk) 08:32, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Symbol support vote.svg Support But I noticed, that Russavia and URAA are very similar. By law we are probably obliged to delete and block, but maybe it is better not to enforce the law very strictly. Taivo (talk) 10:03, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Symbol support vote.svg Support - sure, -jkb- (talk) 11:44, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Symbol oppose vote.svg Oppose - Tired of this cat and mouse game <personal attack removed> ..i'd rather have Fastily back than you..--Stemoc 12:26, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Symbol support vote.svg Support, but please look after yourself; your health is more important than keeping Commons backlogs manageable. ColonialGrid (talk) 13:40, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

Requesting GWToolset user right[edit]

Hi, I'm working with Chandres on the Neuchatel Herbarium Project, and have been doing some testing on Commons Beta with Chandres account. We are almost ready to upload some 30k files. Could I get user right here for GWToolset here? Thanks, --Olivierk14 (talk) 13:48, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

I just want to confirm what Olivier is writing :-) --Chandres (talk) 18:24, 22 May 2015 (UTC)