Commons talk:WikiProject Postcards

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Unkown logo

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On this two postcards is a unkown logo on the left upper corner. A circle with 3 white areas. Looks like a flower. Did someone know the company of this logo? Is this maybe Haenlein Brothers? --sk (talk) 07:30, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

It is a printer mark. See also www.chicagopostcardmuseum.org. --sk (talk) 12:18, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Data of the Adress Sides of Postcards?

The WikiProject Postcards currently is categorizing and capturing data of Postcards by many catgeories such as subject and location but mainly of the front. I thought about the question why we are not categorizing and collecting the data of the Address sides even more and documenting them on the project page. For example we could collect the name and place of the addresse throughː

1. Image Annotations
2. Transcription / Inscription Template (example) (possibly with https://ocr-test.wmcloud.org/)
3. Adding the address in Structured Data (example)
4. Georeferencing the addresses Street (example)
5. Categorizing the addresses Street (example)

In my opinion i think it would be quite interesting exploring or searching Postcards by Address e.g. through Wikimap. Let me know about your thoughts about that. CuratorOfThePast (talk) 19:26, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

I added the cordinates to a couple of postcards a while back. I could never decide if they should be for the sender or recivers address though and I don't think its possible to do both. I thought about doing it with structured data but adding addresses that way isn't intuitive. The best way would probably be to have seperate sender and reciever properties on the structured datas/Wikidatas end though. --Adamant1 (talk) 19:38, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

@Adamant1Alternatively we could also add Sender and Receiver in the Description. But this would be also rather suboptimal approach. So far i only encountered Postcards with receivers / addresses. There is one Property for addressee but only for Wikidata items not for text. So hypothetically the corresponding properties would be name of addressee, address of addressee and name of sender, address of sender? But street and housenumber would have to be modeled as qualifiers also point in time and location? CuratorOfThePast (talk) 20:22, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

I'll add the sender or recevier to the description if there's other information to add along with it. Its not the greatest way to it though and a lot of the file descriptions on postcards uploaded by GLAMs would make that hard. I've only seen a few postcards with the senders address myself, but I think having a uniform, easy way to add both addresses would be helpful for other types of post. That would be another benefit of doing it with structured data to. Then you could just search for "so and so address" and come up with results for postcards, postal covers, Etc. Etc. It wouldn't be as eaay or streamlined with descriptions or coordinate though. At least not on their own. --Adamant1 (talk) 21:19, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

@Adamant1In my opinion it would be imported to reference the address in some mean. Since the address probably would have changed or is defunct. I therefore somewhat prefer georeferencing. A combination of structured data with georeferencing would be good. So coordinate location should be allowed as qualifier. Do you have any suggestions to "suggested" properties? I would then maybe make a Wikidata Forum Thread and ask there also for opinions? CuratorOfThePast (talk) 21:40, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Yes, Yes! I like the idea to put the address information in SDC. In the postcard collection of Graz they have done this (only town to town). You can see this on this website (with a cool map). - Maybe first we should create a new category like Category:Postcard was sent. So we see where we can add addresses. Also Category:Postcard was sent, but address unreadable for postcards with bad resolutions and so on. - I like to create a webtool at toolforge for search and better presentation of postcards (like a Postcard-Database). But I think current one key-thing is missing at commons. We need a way to say in SDC this is the other side of a postcards. So that we can easy connect the two sides of a postcard. Any ideas for that. --sk (talk) 05:19, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Now that you mention it I was actually thinking of creating Category:Mailed postcards and Category:Unmailed postcards a while ago, but never got around to it. That way we could also have categories like Category:Mailed postcards with unreadable addresses and Mailed postcards of X country. It would be cool to also extend it to other mailed items, like postal cards. Although I think the proper term is technically "posted", but "posted postcards" just sounds clunky. Maybe we could create a "mailed: Yes/no" property or something on Wikidatas end along with it, whatever term we go with. --Adamant1 (talk) 05:45, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

I am also in favor creating a Category:Mailed postcards. Regarding the Postcard Database i had the idea for identifiers in commons for each postcards in the description. Something like PC000001F and PC000001B. And What about using the property inventory number and collection "WikiProject Postcards" in that context? But i do not know if that violates Wikidata?

The other way would be to model each postcard as a Wikidata item and link the Postcards with instance of to the specific postcard. But i dont know how to then interlink both sides to the postcards to the wikidata item and back? CuratorOfThePast (talk) 10:02, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

You don't need a identifier. Every image at commons has a unique identifier (the page ID). If you have an image like File:Hastings_County_Archives_HC02986_(21704100745).jpg you can use the "Page information" in the left menu. There you find the Page ID 76994413. You can also use this ID to get the image like request (see URL). And you can use this Page ID with the API. Like this API-request. - So we need only a good way to connect both images via SDC. - I know many postcards from museums are in wikidata as an object. This SPARQL find over 2800 postcards. But I think this is not a good plan. Maybe I am wrong. I think a postcard is a mass product and many postcards come in different variations. So it will be very difficult and many work. --sk (talk) 13:36, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

I only know of the properties is recto of (P2681), is verso of (P2682), image of backside (P7417), part of (P361) and has part(s) (P527) if this is helpful? To summarize we would needː

1. Property for Addresses on the backside of postcards (name of addressee, address of addressee and name of sender, address of sender)
2. Property for if the postcards was mailed?
3. New Category for Mailed postcards
4. Possibly a new property for linking the backside to the frontside?

CuratorOfThePast (talk) 19:51, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

@Adamant1@Stefan KühnI started a Wikidata Forum Discussion for the first property idea. CuratorOfThePast (talk) 20:03, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

I'm with Stefan Kühn about not having a Wikidata object for individual postcards. One way I think you could resolve the problem, and a few others along with, is by having an information template specifically for postcards. Something like Template:Photograph but with fields for the publisher, photographer, link to reserve image, addresses, postmarked date if any, Etc. Etc. I had thought about creating one myself a while back but I'm not really well versed in template creation. You might start a conversation about it someone to see if there's anyone who will create one for us though. --Adamant1 (talk) 02:13, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

@Adamant1@Stefan Kühn I made a property proposal for address of addressee on Wikidata. CuratorOfThePast (talk) 08:32, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

For the point if the postcards was mailed you we can use also the property date postally canceled (P9052)? CuratorOfThePast (talk) 19:18, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

That works. It's to bad your proposal is getting shot down, but I think we can just go their suggestions for now and then propose something else if/when those properties don't workout for whatever reason. Like I'm not really a big fan of using the "author" field for something like this but whatever. --Adamant1 (talk) 21:13, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

I think send and receive coordinates are better as structured data. Coordinates should only be placed with the information template to indicate the 'camera' (or artist) location and/or subject location, just as we would with a photograph. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 21:57, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

With the current modeling with Addressee and the use of qualifiers it is not possible to georeference the adress of sender and receiver properly? What we do about that? A second problem i encountered is that it is not possible to query these postcards or at least they wont show up if query for P1817 in general? (example), (example) (example of file)? CuratorOfThePast (talk) 10:12, 17 May 2024 (UTC)