File talk:First century Iudaea province.gif

Why this isn't an SVG

I still have the original file I used to create this image, and in theory could create an SVG. However, being a typography snob, I know that if I convert this to SVG, I have two options. Either loose the typographic beauty, and have to deal with whatever "default" face renders on the users computer (this often produces bad kerning, awkward line breaks, and other issues, in addition to not have the elegance of say Caslon Italic). This is due to the fact that the wikimedia software (probably with valid licensing concerns) does not allow SVG uploads with embedded fonts. My other options is to convert the text to outlines. This possibly breaks the user agreement for the typeface (depending on what face) by distributing the outlines of the face in vector format (which is why, in theory, none of the typeface specimen images should be in SVG), and also converting to outlines sort of ruins the best part of SVG: user alterations. Once text has been converted to outlines, a user cannot go in and edit the text, or translate it or make any changes to the text. So, I have chosen to publish this image as a GIF. I can produce a higher resolution PNG if that would help, but I will not contribute to the SVG effort due to its terrible typographic support. Other users are welcome to try and convert this image to SVG, since I did publish it under the GFDL, however, I personally do not believe that the design would be an improvement on this image, and would ask that this image be used in article because it has stronger graphic design/typography/beauty. -Andrew c 00:44, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Map is inaccurate - no province of Roman Philistia

It is titled on the upper left Iudaea = Judea "Judea (Iudaea) was the Roman name for the Land of Israel during the heyday of the Roman Empire. This meant not only the area called Judea in Israel today; it included the whole area ruled and/or chiefly inhabited by Jews. We can see this usage in various writers in Latin and Greek of that period. Consider Pliny, Suetonius, and Tacitus in Latin, and Plutarch as well as the geographers Strabo and Ptolemy in Greek. Judea stretched along both sides of the Jordan and included, besides Judea proper, most of the coastal plain, Samaria, most of the Galilee, the Golan Heights of today and considerable land to the east of there (areas called in Latin Gaulanitis [=Golan], Batanaea [=Bashan], Auranitis [=Hawran], and Trachonitis). The Romans called this land as a whole Iudaea (from the Greek Ioudaia). The land was mainly inhabited by Jews and was ruled by Jews. Therefore, Lord Robert Cecil, acting British foreign secretary, was right to use the name Judea for the whole land in his famous remark: "Our wish is that Arabian countries shall be for the Arabs, Armenia for the Armenians, and Judea for the Jews" (December 2, 1917)." http://www.esek.com/jerusalem/iudaea.html

The term Palestine is rarely used in the Old Testament, and when it is, it refers specifically to indicate the southwestern coastal area of Israel occupied by the Philistines. Palestine derives from the Hebrew translation of the word Philistia or “Peleshet” first recorded by the ancient Egyptians as a member of the invading Sea Peoples.The first historical reference is by Herodotus around.450 BCE in his "The Histories" Book 7 and it clearly states that the "Palestinians" were desendant from invaders from the Mediterreanean Sea."[The Phoenicians and the Syrians of Palestina], according to their own account, dwelt anciently upon the Erythraean Sea, but crossing thence, fixed themselves on the seacoast of Syria, where they still inhabit. This part of Syria, and all the region extending from hence to Egypt, is known by the name of "Palaestina"." The term never was used to refer to the whole land of Israel therefore it would be generally accurate to say that the southwestern coastal area was called Philistia (the "Way of the Philistines", or "Palestina"), while the central highlands were called the "Land of Canaan". Both the Canaanites and the Philistines had disappeared as distinct peoples at least by the time of the Babylonian Captivity of Judea (586 B.C.), and they no longer exist. When Titus destroyed Jerusalem in 70 CE, the Roman government struck a coin with the phrase “Judea Capta,” meaning Judea has been captured. All Roman references used the terms Judea and Galilee to refer to the Land of Israel before 135CE.

It was not until the Romans crushed the second Jewish revolt under Bar Kochba against Rome in 135 A.D. that Emperor Hadrian applied the term "Palestina" to the Land of Israel. Hadrian, like many dictators since his time realized the propaganda power of terms and symbols. He replaced the shrines of the Jewish Temple and the Sepulchre of Christ in Jerusalem with temples to pagan deities. He changed the name of Jerusalem to Aelia Capitalina, and changed the name of Israel and Judea to "Palestina". Hadrian’s selection of "Palestina" was purposeful, not accidental. He took the name of the ancient enemies of Israel, the Philistines, Latinized it to "Palestina", and applied it to the Land of Israel. He hoped to erase the name Israel from all memory. Thus, the term "Palestina" as applied to the Land of Israel was invented by the inveterate enemy of the Bible and the Jewish people, the Roman Empire under Emperor Hadrian. It may have pleased Hadrian to utilize this Hellenistic term for the Jewish land since the original Philistines were not Middle Eastern at all the Philistines were part of the Minoan-later the Mycenaean civilization from the island of Thera (also called Santorini) in Greece. They were European peoples from the Adriatic Sea areas next to Greece. In any case, the original “Palestinians” had nothing to do, whatsoever, with any Arabs.

This map is inaccurate - there was no Roman province of Philistia in the first century. Oncenawhile (talk) 09:53, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

There were no Roman provinces of Decapolis, Gaulonitis, Perea, Galilee, etc. None of the marked teritories are Roman provinces, so I don't think your argument here holds any weight. Furthermore, I was just following my sources, which I cited. Unfortunately, I have moved since I last made the map, and I don't have access to those works. Maybe you are arguing that Philistia is not what that region was called in that period? If so, do you have evidence or an alternative name? I tried my best to follow those sources, so I know for a fact that at least one, if not more, of those 3 sources included that title in that region. I'd be glad to try to contact other Wikipedia users that have access to those books, or even try to find a local library to verify my sources. My main point is, if the map is inaccurate, it is only inaccurate due to my sources. And if you are making a claim against a scholarly source, you should back it up with something more. -Andrew c (talk) 16:26, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

With the caveat that I have not vetted any of these sources, I've found [1], [2], [3], [4], [5], and [6] and none of them have a Philistia label. On top of that, Wikipedia tells me Philistine was absorbed into other empires by the 5th century BCE. So it would appear the label is at the very least an anachronism. I'm still curious why one (or more) of my sources included it. I may have read a map wrong as well, as much as I'd hate to admit that. Regardless, I'm fine with the changes for now, and unfortunately don't have the proper resources currently to look into this much further. I'd still like to hear your rationale. -Andrew c (talk) 16:42, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

The location of the cities etc. are accurate - I have checked them. From what I have seen on talk pages elsewhere the naming issues may be as much political as anything else. This is a pretty useful map. History2007 (talk) 19:54, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

"Iudaea" is commonly referred to as a "province" but actually wasn't (it was a 'prefecture'). "Iudaea" was the name given (in ~6 BC) for the new "province" formed when Judea was added to Samaria and Idumea. It wasn't really a "province" (senatorial or imperial). Rather it was a 'prefecture' (a sort of 'satellite') of the province of Syria. Hence it was most often (but not always) ruled by "prefects". That said, it's generally referred to as a "province", though a special case one. Later, under Hadrian the whole region was renamed "Syria Palestinia" (a province attached to Syria).

Though it doesn't say it specifically, the map implies that the areas named are "provinces". They're not. This should be clarified. Maybe a change in title would clarify. How about using a different colour for "Iudaea" and changing the title to "Iudaea Province and surrounding areas" (or locales, or territories).

The map also implies that "Decapolis' was a region/area. It wasn't. "Decapolis" was the name given to a group of 10 semi-autonomous cities that co-operated with Rome. This gave them safety, commerce, and peace with Rome, and gave Rome a powerful group to protect Rome's eastern flank. There was no "border". Rather there was a large area that contained powerful allies who knew they could count on Rome for help if any powerful neighbour tried to invade or threaten them - and those powerful neighbours couldn't form alliances or threaten these powerful cities without Rome getting involved.

Damascus was in the province of Syria (not shown), and "Phoenicia" was a coastal strip that included Tyre and Sidon. Damascus was not in "Phoenicia" (implied).

"Philistia" was a valid name for an areas along the Mediterranean Sea roughly equivalent to the area drawn that has Gaza south and Jamnia north. It was invaded by the Israelites and the people of the area were known as "Philistines". They were never completely wiped out or assimilated. They reappear in the Bible narrative at various places. Samson fought with them as did King Saul and David, and Goliath was a "Philistine".

Hippos was located further North, about 7 miles up the lake, on a hill a mile inland.

"Bethabara" isn't located where you show it (close to Pella). It's the name incorrectly given by the KJV to "Bethany beyond the Jordan", located on the E side of the Jordan River, in Perea, about 10-12 miles east of Jericho.

Title mistake

The map clearly says "Iudaea" in the first century (not Palestine), and is clearly referring to Roman Iudaea and not to Syria Palaestina (established in 2nd century). Request to fix this.Greyshark09 (talk) 19:48, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

Paralia

@User:Oncenawhile, per your previous edit, should the label w:Paralia (Palestine) be applied to the redacted "Philistia" region label ? 96.29.176.92 19:16, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

Yes, that would be correct. Oncenawhile (talk) 20:03, 23 July 2016 (UTC)