File talk:Coat of Arms of St Helens Metropolitan Borough Council.svg

Motto

Hi @ProfAuthor, the local authority voted in 2013 to change their motto from 'Prosperitas in Excelsis' to 'Ex Terra Lucem'. The local authority has changed the motto in the coat of arms on their corporate logo accordingly (en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:St Helens Borough Council logo.svg).

Does that mean that the motto in the coat of arms should be updated or does the motto given in the blazon still stand? Dgp4004 (talk) 10:49, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

I'm happy to change it however I'm not certain what correct procedure would be in a situation like this as I am unaware if they approved this change with the College of Arms and had their grant changed or if their official blazon remains the same. I'll try find out. Thanks for bringing this to my attention! ProfAuthor (talk) 11:04, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

I've just had a response back from the council:

“

hello thank you for your enquiry. We did apply to the College of Heralds to inform them of the change of motto to the council crest. The coat of arms was unchanged but the motto changed from 'Prosperitas in Excelsis' to 'Ex Terra Lucem' many thanks Joanne Griffiths Team Manager Democratic and Scrutiny Services joannegriffiths@sthelens.gov.uk

”

Based on this I won't make the change to the file.

Thanks ProfAuthor (talk) 09:45, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the update and for following up. Dgp4004 (talk) 21:06, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

Good news, ProfAuthor! I've had a reply from the College of Arms that the change in motto was all above board:

'Thank you for your enquiry to the College of Arms, which has come to me as Officer in Waiting for the Week.

I should stress that mottoes do not technically form part of an English grant of Arms (although they are, of course, painted on letters patent beneath the shield), and as such can, in theory, be changed at will and without recourse to the College.

It is, however, good practice to update the details of a changed motto at the College, and I am pleased to say that St Helens Metropolitan Borough Council did so (exactly in line with the change described in your enquiry) in May 2013.

Yours sincerely,

Phillip Bone

Rouge Dragon Pursuivant' Dgp4004 (talk) 13:06, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

Excellent! In that case I'll get to work on changing it. Thanks ProfAuthor (talk) 16:40, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

New version has been uploaded :) ProfAuthor (talk) 16:49, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

Wonderful, thank you Dgp4004 (talk) 19:30, 24 January 2024 (UTC)