Commons:Village pump

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Welcome to the Village pump

This page is used for discussions of the operations, technical issues, and policies of Wikimedia Commons. Recent sections with no replies for 7 days and sections tagged with {{section resolved|1=--~~~~}} may be archived; for old discussions, see the archives.

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Cast iron pump with handle dated 1875 in the form of a fluted column with Corinthian capital on a profiled, square stone base [add]
Centralized discussion
See also: Village pump/Proposals • Archive

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July 28[edit]

Swimming docks[edit]

Maybe I'm just missing something, but we don't seem to have a category or categories for the sort of swimming docks (floating or not, and with or without a lifesaving station) shown in these three pictures. - Jmabel ! talk 15:28, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

Indeed it seems we do not have a category for that yet. --El Grafo (talk) 14:46, 29 July 2020 (UTC)
I suggest to create a category. Other images that may be relevant File:Swimming at Tent Ten with Mini Tower, Camp Highlands for Boys, circa 1915.png and File:Schwimmsteg Breese.jpg. See also Category:Floating docks. Wouter (talk) 20:13, 29 July 2020 (UTC)
File:Schwimmsteg Breese.jpg looks to me like it's probably a pier. These others don't connect to land. - Jmabel ! talk 23:51, 29 July 2020 (UTC)
File:Swimming at Tent Ten with Mini Tower, Camp Highlands for Boys, circa 1915.png: hard to say whether it connects to land or not, the foreground might be part of a somewhat disheveled pier leading to it. - Jmabel ! talk 23:53, 29 July 2020 (UTC)
  • I'd call a floating structure a "raft". A "dock" is an artificial basin of water used by ships, but I see that there's a variant usage in North America: en:Dock (maritime). --ghouston (talk) 02:08, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

July 30[edit]

Trace of Soul 2020[edit]

Hello. I am happy to inform you that Trace of Soul 2020 - a public photography competition, will be held this year too. We are asking your help to do update of Campaign:tos-rs (just update 2019 to 2020). Thanks,--Bosko23 (talk) 15:50, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

✓ Done --Base (talk) 13:15, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

July 31[edit]

Rename A Couple of Categories[edit]

My fault, I've been a bit inconsistent when creting two categories in a category (I followed e.g. "Birds of Uganda" and created "Birds of United Kingdom" where when I look at the equivalent United Stated category there is a proceeding "the" as in "Birds of the United States" i.e. I messed out the "the". There are 2 categories I've doe this on Category:Videos of birds of United Kingdom (should be "... the United Kingdom to be consistent wit "... the United States") and Category:Videos of reptiles of United Kingdom. Probably not the end of the world but a minor inconsistency. They were only created in the last couple of days so very unlikely there are external (or internal) links to the "inconsistent" categories so maybe don't need a redirect is a straight name change can be done (but beyond my knowledge or authorisation). Sorry and thanks. PsamatheM (talk) 12:50, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

@PsamatheM: I renamed the categories, after which I manually recategorized the files. When you rename (button at the right of the page history button), the old category automatically becomes a redirect (but files in it do stay in it, so you have to fix that). Because the category is new, there's no need to keep it, so I tagged them 'bad name', so they will be deleted. Eissink (talk) 13:02, 31 July 2020 (UTC).
Many thanks. Some of the animal categories get complex (they have to) and for video as not a lot of fauna videos, categories need adding. Thanks for sorting. PsamatheM (talk) 13:15, 31 July 2020 (UTC)
@PsamatheM, Eissink: Uncontroversial category renames can be requested at User talk:CommonsDelinker/commands, and all the file moves, interwiki links, etc. will then be correctly taken care of. - Jmabel ! talk 14:36, 31 July 2020 (UTC)
If you can't remember whether something is "The New York Times" or "New York Times" like I do all the time, then make a redirect. The person above works in their categories all the time, yet still cannot remember which it is, just like I do in my example, a redirect is the correct thing to do. We also have/had a bot that moves redirected categories automatically. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 18:19, 31 July 2020 (UTC)
If you use {{Move cat}} in User talk:CommonsDelinker/commands, it will leave a soft redirect from the old category name. If you don't want the redirect, it can then be deleted. - Jmabel ! talk 01:09, 1 August 2020 (UTC)
The usage of the word "the" in English is quite often left out when referring to these countries, while I personally dislike it when people say "Traffic in United Kingdom" rather than "Traffic in the United Kingdom", it's quite common for (especially) non-native speakers to make this mistake. The fact that redirects show up in HotCat suggestions isn't bad because it will automatically add the file into the correct category. In fact Wikimedia Commons has a severely underpopulated catalogue of (category) redirects. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 18:23, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

August 01[edit]

Name in original language?[edit]

Pardon me, but I am a newbie w.r.t. policies here on commons.

The situation is this: Back in 2007, eneditor moved the category "Damascus" to its Arab name with the edit-line: "move to native name according to policy on articles".(link)

Is this still policy? I find "دمشق" quite a bit more cumbersome than "Damascus", Huldra (talk) 20:12, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

@Huldra: It is not. In fact, we have two complementary policies saying to use English for category names: Commons:Language policy and Commons:Categories#Category names. --AntiCompositeNumber (talk) 21:09, 1 August 2020 (UTC)
Thanks, @AntiCompositeNumber: I have moved it to "Damascus", thanks again, Huldra (talk) 21:15, 1 August 2020 (UTC)
@Huldra, AntiCompositeNumber: That is not a category page, it is a gallery page. There is no policy for gallery pages to be specifically in English.
As it happens, the captions on that page are almost exclusively in English or proper nouns in Arabic transliterated to Latin script, so I think the English title is more appropriate, but someone could certainly create a gallery page "دمشق" with Arabic captions. - Jmabel ! talk 02:55, 2 August 2020 (UTC)
I suppose I should have looked at that link then. In that case, Commons:Galleries#Naming_conventions says that the local language would probably be better there, though I think either would be permissible. --AntiCompositeNumber (talk) 19:07, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

Does anyone mind me joining these two categories?[edit]

We have Category:Jerusalem on photochrome prints and Category:Photochrom prints collection (Jerusalem), which, AFAIK; cover the exact same photos. Will anyone object if I join them? Preferably in Category:Jerusalem on photochrome prints, as that is in line with Category:Photochrome prints by country. Huldra (talk) 23:23, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

It looks like there are two concepts, Category:Photochrom pictures which is a technique, and Category:Holy Land in the Photochrom print collection (Photoglob Co.) which is an image source. Maybe Category:Photochrom prints collection (Jerusalem) could be made a subcategory of Category:Jerusalem on photochrome prints, in case another photochrom print of Jerusalem from a different source turns up some day. --ghouston (talk) 01:28, 2 August 2020 (UTC)
Well, the problem is that images that are in Category:Photochrom prints collection (Jerusalem), are also in Category:Jerusalem on photochrome prints, so why have a subcategory at all? If people want to see what comes from Category:Holy Land in the Photochrom print collection (Photoglob Co.), then they can go to that category?
Also, there is a somewhat similar problem with Category:Photochrom prints collection (Lebanon and Syria), it is a subcat of Category:Lebanon on photochrome prints and Category:Syria on photochrome prints.
But all pictures in Category:Photochrom prints collection (Lebanon and Syria) belongs either in Category:Lebanon on photochrome prints or Category:Syria on photochrome prints. So why do we have a Category:Photochrom prints collection (Lebanon and Syria), when we know which of the two countries they belong in?
There are too many (confusing) categories here, it is quite difficult to navigate. I would like to make it more simple and logical to find the pictures. And that means focusing what(where) the images depict, ie country, city, etc.. What collection the image comes from simply isn't that interesting (except for the very few involved with any particular collection) Huldra (talk) 20:27, 2 August 2020 (UTC)
What Category:Photochrom prints collection (Jerusalem) needs is a few sentences explaining the origin of the collection and where they are archived. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 21:30, 2 August 2020 (UTC)
@Huldra: You may not find the origin "interesting," but we do normally use as "source" category to track when a GLAM is the source. But recognize that a "source" category should be more or less independent of categorization for other purposes. You should be able to navigate down the category tree in a reasonable way & find something appropriately categorized without ever taking the branch for a "source" category. - Jmabel ! talk 02:53, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

August 02[edit]

Alternate accounts policy[edit]

Hallo, everyone,

Does Commons have a policy on valid uses of alternat accounts, required declarations, etc.? (I am planning to donate some photos that aren't consistent with the persona of my main account and I don't want to out myself by revealing too much. „On the Internet nobody knows I'm a dog”, as the cartoon goes. But I don't want to break any rules.) I tried searching on phrases like „sock puppet” and „alternate account” with no success.

45.133.192.124 14:16, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

Hi, you can take a look at Commons:Username policy and maybe ask a stewart if you wish. :-) Lotje (talk) 14:39, 2 August 2020 (UTC)
Hello. As far as I know, the only local policy page concerning this is COM:BP; it states "Abusing multiple accounts to mislead, deceive, disrupt, distort consensus or to evade blocks or other sanctions" is grounds for a block. Commons:Sockpuppetry is a redirect to w:en:WP:SOCK. If you generally adhere to local policies and don't "mislead, deceive, disrupt, distort consensus or to evade blocks or other sanctions" with the alternative account, which isn't the case here, you can create and use an alternative account, I believe. Creating an alternative account for privacy reasons is legit, provided that it isn't used for disrupting Commons. You may want to inform a CheckUser, but that isn't required by the policy. Ahmadtalk 16:14, 2 August 2020 (UTC)
I'm an admin here, and I totally concur with the above (except that it's steward, not stewart). Just as long as you can be confident that the materials you want to upload separately are appropriately licensed & in scope, no issue in doing so from a distinct account. - Jmabel ! talk 18:55, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

August 03[edit]

Category for recipe tutorial videos?[edit]

What should be the name of this category for this kind of videos https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlomKt5faIE ? There're lots on the Internet. I suppose some must have been uploaded. They're like recipes, but they are no longer paper based but actual footage teaching the audience. An analogous example I thought of is cooking shows on TV.--RZuo (talk) 16:13, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

GPS data are no longer automatically taken over by the Upload Wizard in certain cases?[edit]

The problem seems to depend on the version of the EXIF data. Example:

  • does not work: EXIF data - Panasonic - DMC-TZ61 Version ID: 2.3.0.0
  • works: EXIF data - Pixel 4 XL - Version ID: 2.2.0.0

A detailed description in German can be found here. Until some time ago it also worked for EXIF data - Panasonic - DMC-TZ61 Version ID: 2.3.0.0 without problems.

Could this be corrected? --Molgreen (talk) 17:17, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

There is already a task on this. The problem is not in the UploadWizard it is directly in MediaWiki itself. --GPSLeo (talk) 20:46, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
Hallo GPSLeo, thanks for the reference to "phab T223051". I have pointed out my details there. --Molgreen (talk) 17:54, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
Sorry, the commonist works fine. => File:Schleswig-Holstein, Nutteln, Mitfahrbank NIK 0600.jpg Gruss --Nightflyer (talk) 20:56, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
Hallo Nightflyer, thanks also for your reference to commonist. If there is no improvement in the foreseeable future, I will probably have to install Java . . . I wanted to avoid that. --Molgreen (talk) 17:54, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

August 04[edit]

Skipping pages[edit]

If a category of images has a BUNCH of images, there seems to be no way to advance through them other than page by page by page. Is there any way to advance faster? It certainly seems like you should be able to leap to page 10 of 50 or something like that. I do NOT want to find a specific image. I want to be able to skip through the images and then look at each image from some midway point. --ProfReader (talk) 04:57, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

For very large categories, it is usually a good idea to add {{CategoryTOC}}. You can then skip to the page containing files starting with a particular letter of the alphabet. From Hill To Shore (talk) 06:17, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
It is possible to manually advance to a page by mimicking the urls created by categoryTOC. However there is no way to leap to a specific number of files (if all files use a consistent numberring scheme it is possible, but you cannot know that). --C.Suthorn (talk) 06:44, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

Huggle issue[edit]

Hi greetings, I would like to share some issues regarding huggle in Commons. The page Commons:Huggle/Config.yaml doesn't compatible with Commons. The links and procedures are of English Wikipedia. Reverts do not work properly due to these issues. Would you mind fixing these bugs by changing relevant links, other things, etc according to Commons? It shall be a great help, if huggle become functional in Wikimedia Commons. Thank you.--Path slopu (Talk) 07:57, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

From the main Huggle page: "Huggle doesn't currently work on this project at the moment and there is no schedule for a fix." Ruslik (talk) 20:16, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

Collective work[edit]

Hi to all,

I'm looking for helping about copyright expiry of collective works in Italy. I'm talking about newspapers and comics after the Second World War.

QUESTION: it is possible publish scansions of collective works, where the original are in library or mine?

If yes, which template I have to use for this upload?

Thank you and bye, --Galessandroni (talk) 09:34, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

The copyright law is the same for all kinds of works. Ruslik (talk) 20:15, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

Reuploading[edit]

There’s file File:Python's IDLE.png which originally was uploaded by Максим Пе as screenshot of IDLE in Ubuntu, after another file was uploaded by Maćko as new version of this file and it’s screenshot of macOS but in local descriptions still say that it’s Ubnutu (i. e. here). (You can answer me in Russian, English or Polish.) 217.117.125.72 10:26, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

Flat lists of creative works?[edit]

I was trying to find proper parents for Category:Maau Daan Ting Ging Mung, so I looked to Italian operas like Category:Turandot (Puccini) for inspiration. It turns out operas are not put into a single cat but segregated by composer, language or year. I cant do the same for Cantonese operas because, for a lot of these, authorship is not well documented. A user created a handful of categories in the format of Repertoires of ... opera as catch-all, though.

So this makes me wonder, should creative works be put into flat lists like people into people by name? I can find two: Category:Books by title Category:Films by title. Is it a good idea for other kind of works?--RZuo (talk) 18:55, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

@RZuo: There's broad consensus for "by name" categories. If you think one would be useful, then I'd recommend just creating it yourself. By the way, two more pre-existing ones are Newspapers by name and Podcasts by name, and you can find lots of them in Categories by name. –IagoQnsi (talk) 00:56, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

August 05[edit]

About copyright status of "Sansho_Dayu_poster.jpg"[edit]

File:Sansho_Dayu_poster.jpg

As for the File:Sansho_Dayu_poster.jpg, there is surely a definite question in copyright status. I doubt its illegal usage against a relative copyright law: it says materials will be protected for 70 years after public release. The poster in question was published in 1954, therefore this is surely protected until 2024, I guess. --Green (talk) 02:09, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

  • @Green: The PD tag on the page says "the work is now in the public domain in Japan because the copyrights of the works in names of organizations, in Japan expire in 50 years after the publication". Is that not true? - Jmabel ! talk 16:52, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
    • @Snek01: You reverted the image with a resolution of 580×763 back to the low resolution of 180×258. Does that change have something to do with the copyright? The source

http://homepage2.nifty.com/e-tedukuri/sansyoudayuu.htm does not exist anymore. Wouter (talk) 19:45, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

@Jmabel: Japanese copyright law had been revised in 2004, so it extended from 50 to 70 years.
The Supreme Court ruled that "the amended law that came into effect on January 1, 2004 does not apply to works whose copyright ended on December 31, 2003" (that is, they do not extend to 70 years after publication). It has been finalized (the Supreme Court's third small court ruling on December 18, 2007).
The movie poster shows "copyrighted (C)1954". The term "movie work" as used in this Act shall include works that are expressed in a manner that produces a visual or audiovisual effect similar to that of a movie and that are fixed to the thing. This is my point of view. --Green (talk) 02:05, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

@Green: I'm totally out of my depth here. I suggest closing this here and opening it at Commons:Village pump/Copyright where there will be a lot more expertise. - Jmabel ! talk 03:12, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

Free images from needpix...[edit]

Recently google image search has been reporting freely reusable images from some sites that are new to me... including needpix.com

I recently uploaded an image from needpix.

The image itself said the image was public domain

And the FAQ says all the images on the site are "Creative Commons Zero License for Public Domain".

Is there any reason not to take the FAQ at face value? Geo Swan (talk) 07:53, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

Example of a file hosted on needpix, with no attribution, no source.
Yes.
On the 'about us' page: All photos hosted here are collected only from public domain sources such as: pixabay.com, pond5.com, picjumbo.com, publicdomainpictures.net, and others.
I have added a thumb of needpix file which happens to be the Commons logo (TM). The only attribution is to the WikimediaImages pixabay account which is in no way 'official' and is certainly not the creator of this image, nor the thousands of other Commons images hosted at that pixabay account without any source links back to the Wikimedia Commons project. It perfectly illustrates the problem with public domain harvesting websites that somewhat carelessly auto-harvest millions of files, and in the process lose EXIF data, attribution statements, or even preservation of titles because they take no responsibility for 'mining' the image back to a true source site. Consequently there is no way of credibly checking whether a good quality photograph from this site really is public domain, or whether somewhere along the chain of bot harvesters, they have mistakenly taken CC-BY files, or CC-NC, or even all rights reserved photographs that have been Flickrwashed, potentially deliberately, at other sites.
The only easy way to use sites like this is to limit uploads to images where the stated source author has been demonstrated as being reliable, then ensure that original attribution is preserved during upload to Commons. Preferably, the 'image mining' should be done at the same time to find and quote an original source site link, rather than leaving it deliberately obscured so that "needpix" can continue making advertising revenue every time someone is forced to visit their website to attempt a source verification. -- (talk) 09:13, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
BTW, with regard to the specific upload already done, it's better to link to the source at "publicdomainpictures.net" because it's clear in their profile there that they take PayPal payments for their stock photography, include a link to their own photography website (which would be a perfect verifiable source) and even include a PayPal button for modest payments. Just having their name in text on a Commons image page is not especially fair to this professional photographer. -- (talk) 09:24, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

Notification about a proposed global ban of User:Eric abiog[edit]

August 06[edit]

Photo challenge June results[edit]

Do it yourself: EntriesVotesScores
Rank 1 2 3 3
image Home-made redcurrant jam - jars between pulp residue and stalks.jpg Dice made of polymer clay (handmade).jpg Gambrel Shed construction.jpg Drawings made with twigs and self-made natural inks..jpg
Title Home-made redcurrant jam - DIY - jars
between pulp residue and stalks
Dice made of polymer
clay (handmade).
Three stages of shed construction Drawings made with
twigs and self-made
natural inks.
Author Franz van Duns Annatsach Jarekt Matylda Florén
Score 9 8 6 6
Rainwater drainage: EntriesVotesScores
Rank 1 2 3
image Giechburg Wasserspeier-20180223-RM-155737.jpg Gutter in Dawanshiju 2.jpg Kumpulanpuro culvert.jpg
Title Gargoyle at the Giechburg near
Scheßlitz in Upper Franconia
Central gutter in the
village of Dawanshiju, China
Kumpulanpuro culvert,
Helsinki
Author Ermell Mx. Granger Kriomet
Score 22 13 13

Congratulations to Franz van Duns, Annatsach, Matylda Florén, Jarekt, Ermell, Mx. Granger and Kriomet. -- Jarekt (talk) 03:39, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

Technical Wishes: FileExporter and FileImporter become default features on all Wikis[edit]

Max Klemm (WMDE) 09:13, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

@Max Klemm (WMDE): all wiki's you say? Seems a bit pointless on wiki's that don't use local upload or only for non-free files. Multichill (talk) 19:35, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
@Multichill: Yes if they have 0 files. Ms.wiki have closed for uploads years ago but have many freely licensed files that could be moved once they are checked. But if they don't have files then noone will ever even notice that FileImporter excist. --MGA73 (talk) 20:12, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
@Max Klemm (WMDE): "until", you wrote? How about "starting"?   — Jeff G. please ping or talk to me 06:40, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
@Jeff G.: Originally it was supposed to start on August 5. I think what is meant that it is delayed and it will not start until August 7. :-) --MGA73 (talk) 10:56, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

Anyway I love FileImporter and if anyone need help setting it up feel free to ping me. --MGA73 (talk) 11:34, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

Requesting feedback for {{According to external metadata}}[edit]

I've just made {{According to external metadata}}, a file page template similar to {{According to Exif data}}. When uploading files, I often want to include the date from the Last-Modified HTTP header at the URL where I found it. The Last-Modified header is valuable because it often reflects the exact time that the file was first published. However, it's a machine-generated timestamp, so really it could mean anything (hence the need for this template).

Feedback would be appreciated, especially on the template's wording. I didn't want to use any obscure jargon, nor did I want to make this specific to the Last-Modified header, as there are many other sources of date metadata (e.g. HTML meta tags, cache-busting query strings, site-specific APIs, etc). However, I wonder if I made the wording too generic... Anyway, I would also greatly appreciate help from anyone who can add more translations. Thanks, IagoQnsi (talk) 19:00, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

  • Looks like an interesting idea! -- Tuválkin 07:54, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
how does one check whether that data is correct? i mean, when a user uses this template, how does another verify the parameters defined?--RZuo (talk) 13:16, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
@RZuo: In general, the metadata can be found somewhere at the source link. The exact location at the source will vary from case to case, as there are innumerable different ways that websites might show this sort of metadata. As I mentioned before, the Last-Modified header was the impetus for making this template, so here's a screenshot demonstrating how to find that using Chrome's developer tools: File:How to find the Last-Modified header in Blink.png. But that's just one of many possible ways it could be stored, and this is all assuming that the source URL still works (the metadata is not stored anywhere in the file itself). In general, I see {{According to external metadata}} as a huge disclaimer, i.e. "I dug up this date somewhere; it may not be accurate or reproducible, but it's all we have". –IagoQnsi (talk) 14:41, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

August 07[edit]

Stop sign[edit]

Stopaanvraagknop waterbushalte Biesbosch.jpg

Wich category can I use for this stop sig button?Smiley.toerist (talk) 11:23, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

May be Category:Request stop push buttons Wouter (talk) 12:26, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

Strange WD link below the edit window of a file[edit]

Hi, does anyone know what the strange Wikidata link at the bottom of e. g. [1] means?

Wikidata entities used in this page
M84213045: Title

It points to an non-existing entity. With other M-IDs the same happens with all files.

Thank you in advance, --Arnd (talk) 12:58, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

84213045 is that page's page ID.
if you try editing File:FICO logo.svg, you'll see two lines:
M7464032: Title
FICO: Sitelink, Some labels
because this page used {{Depicted logo}} and {{Label}} which used data from wikidata.
i dont know enough about this, what purposes they serve, etc.--RZuo (talk) 13:16, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
It's a bug, see phab:T250611. Multichill (talk) 13:55, 7 August 2020 (UTC)