File talk:Coat of arms of Ireland.svg

New source

I do not wish this meddling of mine to be misunderstood but instead to report a reliable source.

The Irish State Government received (1985-02-15) this document in connection with its own request for the protection of the State emblems (and storage) which would ensure prohibition of inappropriate use and any imitation from a heraldic point of view in member states of the Paris Convention for the Protection of Industrial Property.

It is up to this community to decide, weather they want this "job" at all and/or the implementation of some details that this official image use.

The official image that the Government of Ireland protected can be found here. It is the Irish Coat of arms, State emblem by the terminology of World Intellectual Property Organization only.

It has more detail and some major point to be discussed that follow below:

Number and colour of strings

I would like to point out the number and colour of strings. I has nothing to do with me but my feeling is that strings should not be so broad but should be narrow.

This Image:COA_IRELAND.PNG was used as a role model for the sVG file we are talking about. It was made by en:User:Djegan who stated that is using the official harp.

This role model also has silver strings - not white which are too embossed.

Therefore a question arises; why the strings are white now?

Also another question; do you see the similarities of that role model with the official & protected by the Government of Ireland one?

Black hem (trim) of the shield

It is clear that the Image:COA_IRELAND.PNG role model uses black hem (trim, border) of the shield just as the official & protected one.

Precision details

The role model has not got such precision details like official & protected one.

Description

The Irish Coat of arms is described as "a harp or, stringed argent, on a field azure." The harp has been used in the coat of arms of Ireland since medieval times. It is depicted alongside the coats of arms of a dozen or more medieval European kingdoms on a single folio of the Wijnbergen roll of arms compiled about 1270. The harp is found on the banners of the Irish brigades, which were formed in the armies of continental European countries during the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries. The harp today is used as the symbol of the Irish State. It is found in the seals of the President, Taoiseach, Tánaiste and Government Ministers and is used on the back of Irish coins including new euro coins minted in Ireland.

The Presidential Standard is a blue flag with the heraldic harp. The model for the artistic representation of the heraldic harp is the 14th century harp now preserved in the Museum of Trinity College Dublin, popularly known as the Brian Boru harp.

Sources that also use silver or similar strings

• http://www.crwflags.com/FOTW/flags/ie.html#coa
• http://www.taoiseach.gov.ie/index.asp?locID=194&docID=240
• http://foreignaffairs.gov.ie/uploads/documents/ireland%20in%20brief.pdf

Now I want to finally provide some clarifications regarding the procedure. Once the request has been solved and protection granted the Irish Patent Office received a copy of the State emblem and other armorial bearings, flags and other emblems as well as official signs and hallmarks indicating control and warranty and abbreviations and names. So everything can be checked in the Irish Patent Office or WIPO Information Centre.

Rainman 21:51, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

P. S. I do not object to the blue colour that other users selected.

Comments

To me, it is not a problem to modify the SVG file – this is the great advantage about this file format. I just would like to confirm that this is the official version, or the most similar to it – specially because the original PNG file is very different. In fact, in my opinion the point is to determinate which version is the official; after that, the corrections will be easy. Maybe it will be needed a broader discussion. If someone could find the official CMYK/RGB composition of each colour, would be great. Cheers. --Tonyjeff 14:42, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Original PNG file is not so much different, and besides those minute differences, it is clear that sVG that came out of that orriginal PNG file do not use exact and every detail present on that PNG file.

Furthermore that original PNG file doesn't even state its sources and only claims officiality. I agree that further determination should occur but the source and documentation that I offered is of most official nature.

Rainman 20:03, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I made the SVG file based on the PNG file and, appart the colours and the stroke of the lines, I cannot see much difference between them. If the SVG is so different from the JPG, it is because the PNG (appart the colours) is totally wrong (since I can see clear differences between PNG and JPG).

Anyway: 1. yes, just like other PNG coat of arms, this one has no refference of its officiality. 2. to me, it is ok to consider the JPG the official one. 3. no problemo, I may create the new file. I really just would like the opinion of others to make sure we will meet a consensus this time. Cheers. --Tonyjeff 20:31, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Update for Consideration

I would like to put forth this new upgraded file File:Arms of Ireland (Alternate).svg to replace the old version. It is cleaner. The older version version corresponds slightly more to governmental department version. The new version is based exactly on the official style seen the reverse of the Irish coinage [1] and the presidential seal of 1945 while both are very similar i believe mine to be of a slight increase in quality. Setanta Saki (talk) 21:23, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

How the hell does posting this on a talk page nobody watches constitute a discussion forming a consensus to change a set of images on an article??? You couldn't have tried harder to hide this. In any case, I am willing to remove my opposition to you uploading your new harp over this file as you originally wished to, as it is a great improvement. However I do have a concern: Based on the images you've linked such as that coin, your harp seems a bit wider than it should be. Also the rotation seems to be a bit off to the right. Fry1989 ^eh? 01:22, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

Ya apparently they are not watched by many i was told by another user aswell, personally I watch image talk pages so assumed others did also, i left it for a while without response before changing the article image, I wasnt assuming consensus but only to see if anyone with any interest thought of most recent update. Thanks for thumbs up of the new image, if I uploaded it over the old version as you suggest would you want the older version reuploaded under perhaps the alternate name? as you had said earlier you would like to keep both. I dont think the coin image is the best for taking for taking the exact width and game tilt so i choose to take it from an overlay of a larger version of this image [2] which shows it in actual arms format and uses a very similar design .Setanta Saki (talk) 19:08, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

My main reason for opposing the overwrite and having them both is because the change was rather different, and I was taken aback by this rendition. However your most recent changes really are a very good improvement to the image, and I don't think anyone else would say otherwise. The current harp on this file can be saved in the previous versions section, so I don't see the need to upload it as another file. The same would go for the other images using the harp, such as the presidential standard. Fry1989 ^eh? 21:11, 11 February 2014 (UTC)