File talk:Romance 20c en.png

See also

See also en:File talk:Romance 20c en.png.--Codrin.B (talk) 18:00, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Gibraltar

I've spotted a couple of inaccuracies in the image. At present it Gibraltar as being part of Spain and as having Spanish as the only spoken language in the territory. Gibraltar is bilingual in Spanish and English (the only official language) and should therefore be represented as such in this image. It's national boundary also needs to be added. At the moment the image is deceptive; could someone please correct these issues? Thanks. --Gibmetal77 02:23, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

• This map should not represent ladin language in Val di Non beause it is not Koryakov Y.B. Atlas of Romance languages. Moscow, 2001 point of view. Serg!o last upload could mystify original sources. --Wento (talk) 14:24, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Ich habe auch Fehler entdeckt und möchte deshalb um die Bearbeitung bitten. Die falsche Darstellung verletzt die Rechte von Minderheiten.Raczrobert (talk) 21:24, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Montenegro

Please, add Montenegro. --Sammy pompon (talk) 14:51, 17 September 2011 (UTC)

Aromanian and Megleno-Romanian missing

The map/legend doesn't depict or mention the Aromanian and Megleno-Romanian languages. They have speakers in Republic of Macedonia, Serbia, Bulgaria, Albania, Greece and Turkey. It would be great if the people who maintain it would take a look at this similar map

Latin Europe Countries

. Maybe the two groups can collaborate and potentially merge the two.--Codrin.B (talk) 18:00, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Map errors

1 - Catalan is not a West Iberian or Ibero-Romance language. It is Gallo-Romance (its oldest historic origins are in Northern France, not any close to Iberian Peninsula, and it is also at least originally more related to Langues d'Oïl and Franco-Provençal than to Spanish), and also Occitano-Romance i.e. a language very related to Occitan.

2 - The main dialectal divides in Portugal are:

1. Madeiran, Azorean and Cape Verdean dialects with Continental European Portuguese.
2. More conservative dialects of Southern Portugal in constrast with the others (I do not see any line dividing the peripheries of Lisbon Metro, so it is wrong even if there is an invisible demarcation along the Tejo).
3. Then we have the correct line of the map dividing Central and Northern Portuguese...

...which to my Brazilian ears sound roughly the same in comparison with the much more clearly spoken and entirely comprehensible accent of Cristiano Ronaldo from Madeira. Just saying, it is a fact that Brazilian Portuguese is more conservative, so Europeans were basically using our phonemes in the 16th century. Most inovations of Central dialects only started to exist in the 19th century and spread to the Northern ones in the past century.

3 - Not exactly an error but, there are Sephardic communities not only in countries such as Franch and Netherlands, but also there are Crypto-Jews recently re-evaluating their heritage in Spain and Portugal. It is specially true for certain Northern Portuguese cities such as Chaves, Miranda do Douro, Bragança and above all Belmonte. What is the criteria to say that Judaeo-Romance is still alive in the Balkans and Madrid but dead in Portugal, France and the Netherlands?

4 - Also not an error, but, why this map shows a pattern so different from this one http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Italian_languages.png regarding Toscan and Central Italian? Lguipontes (talk) 15:47, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

Sources?

The thicker lines enclosing "generalized" spanish, french or italian are plausible but arbitrary and not backed up by any scientific source. I think they should be deleted.--Sajoch (talk) 00:02, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

There's nothing arbitrary in borders, both national and regional. These define exactly the areas where French, Italian and Spanish are generally used, enclosing other Romance variants, and moreover officially (it's not quite clear and scientific?). Obviously it's very important and relevant. --Felisopus (talk) 08:29, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm not talking about national or regional borders. I'm referring to the "generalized lines", which aren't backed up by any source. Please provide a source - thanks.--Sajoch (talk) 15:29, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

The "generalized lines" follow exactly the national or regional borders. There's nothing arbitrary or unsourced. You need a source for the borders of Spain, France, Italy, Wallonia, Ticino and so on? --Felisopus (talk) 16:36, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

No, they do not. "Generalized French" includes also Valle d'Aosta and lower Belgium, while "Generalized Italian" includes Ticino and parts of Grigione, ... apparently, because those areas traditionally include native speakers of the said language. For the same reason most of South Tyrol should not be included in "Generalized Italian". But I prefer scientific sources to support this correction. Scooter20 even added "Generalized Romanian" and 13 months later Anonimu undid - and nobody complained!?! Therefore my request for sources and a definition of "Generalized language".--Sajoch (talk) 19:13, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

Sajoch, the lines follow exactly the boundaries of the areas where it is official. French is official in Wallonia&Bruxelles and Valle d'Aosta, Italian in Ticino, parts of Grisons and I'm sorry but it is still official in South Tyrol. You can not just ignore the evidences, and feel free to reinsert the Romanian. --Felisopus (talk) 07:55, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

You don't have to be sorry. You finally gave a definition of "generalized language" - and that's what I asked for. So "generalized" means that the language is "officially used" and we should explain that in the caption of the image. Do others agree?--Sajoch (talk) 08:54, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

If "officiality" is meant, Brusselles is missing as a bilingual French/Dutch-area.

I don't know where Romanian is official - any sources?--Sajoch (talk) 08:55, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

Topics fixed

Most of the topics above are now fixed (including Montenegro and Gibraltar), with the exception of the Portuguese/Galician divisions, I have no idea how that works.—Spesh531, My talk, and External links 03:04, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

License

Is it ((self|GFDL|cc-by-sa-3.0)) or (C) as stated in the left bottom corner? -- Fulvio ³¹⁴ 07:38, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

Hungarian in Romania

Why are predominantly Hungarian regions marked as bilingual, while areas with a significant Hungarian minority are marked as fully Romanian? --46.139.93.230 17:44, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

Romanian language

There are some errors about the Romanian language representation on „Romance languages in Europe” map (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/31/Romance_20c_en.png/1280px-Romance_20c_en.png). A few points:

1. In the West, the map presents a few blank spots, that should be zones in which Romanian is not used. In fact, in every commune in that area Romanians ar at least 65% from the local population, in majority of the teritory Romanians are over 75%, and everybody there knows and used Romanian. For example, in Berliște commune the Romanians are 80% of population, in Vrani 78.5%, in Jamu Mare 88.21%, in Moravița 83.22% etc. All of this are figured on this map as ”non-Romanian zones”!! The commune with the lowest Romanian population is Giera commune, with 65.53% Romanians. Also on the map is a blank zone - a ”non-Romanian language zone”! (data source is https://www.recensamantromania.ro/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/sR_Tab_8.xls)

2. The bilingual area form the center of Romania is figured thrice of the real size. In fact, the zone have the majority of two counties (Harghita and Covasna), but on this map it covers at least five counties (Brașov, Covasna, Harghita, Mureș, Cluj).

3. The majority of Aromanians are using ”generalized Romanian”, as Aromanian is not one dialect, but a constellation of dialects, and is easyer for us to understand each other through ”generalized Romanian”.

4. At the East of Moldova Republic there are Romanian villages and towns (in today Ukraine). Not even a point is figured on the map.

5. The area between Moldova Republic and Black Sea (the western part of Odessa Region) is bilingual (I was there, and in every place they know Romanian). 2A02:2F0D:2003:FD00:D8F3:927F:3318:54A7 06:46, 25 August 2022 (UTC)