File talk:Qing-Expansion3.jpg

Both maps are quite strange. The top one is absolutely bizarre: it claims the Qing in 1643-83 having a precise north-eastern border, and, moreover, one that exactly corresponds to today's Sino-Russian border. This of course was not the case: southern Manchuria (today's Liaoning + Jilin + the "interior" parts of today's Heilongjiang) were under firm Qing control, but the north - all of the Amur/Heilongjiang valley - was the are of conflict between Russians and Manchus. That is, the Qing may have considered all Amur peoples its tributaries, but in practice many some sections of the region were under control of Russians for years and decades. See en:Russian–Manchu border conflicts for details.

The bottom map is better - at least, there was a treaty-settled border in the north, and no more fighting - but surely the map should not be cropped in such a way as to not show where the border actually was! You can find any number of period maps in Category:Old maps of China which show its location. Vmenkov (talk) 13:41, 13 December 2009 (UTC)