File talk:Station avec plaque tournante (par Ch. Chusseau-Flaviens).jpg

Misidentified location on the original photoprint

Um especialista ferroviário levantou a questão no Facebook: Isto não é de certeza o Cais do Sodré, e parece ser Valencia de Alcántara — a palavra "Alcântara" pode ter estado na origem da confusão na rotulagem errada do negativo. Para já pus não identificado, mas vale a pena investigar mais. -- Tuválkin ✉ 03:10, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

• Oh diabo, tens toda a razão! Não sei como é que deixei passar esta, confesso que durante anos vi a fotografia nos artigos e nunca reparei muito nela. Decerto, não pode ser no Cais do Sodré... basta comparar com esta, que sim é verídica. Obrigado pelo alerta. -- Ajpvalente (talk) 07:31, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

Mais uma achega: repara na fotografia, na página da George Eastman House: http://www.geh.org/ar/chus/portugal/m197501122006_ful.html. Em cima, tens uma anotação escrita à mão, que me parece dizer "Lisbonne - 23 E - station - Gare Caes do Sodré". Portanto, foi erro do artista, ou de quem catalogou à mão a fotografia... infelizmente, também não consigo perceber onde foi tirada esta fotografia, mas também duvido que seja portuguesa, especialmente devido àquela carruagem ao fundo em frente. O problema é que o autor andou por meio mundo... Consegues perceber a bitola da via? Já ajudava um bocadinho... Mas o estilo em geral dá-me uma ideia de espanhol. -- Ajpvalente (talk) 19:04, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

Sim, pá, essa legenda garajutada no negativo estava à vista tb na versão da imagem aqui no Commons (até ter sido aparada recentemente) e está na origem de toda a tramóia. No Facebook fizeram um escândalo («coisa típica da uiquipédia, »patati-patatá), mas lá se aproveitou algumas ideias boas. Acha quem sabe que isto (detalhes do edifício, relógio, plataformas) é tipico do Ramal de Cáceres, do lado espanhol. A bitola parece larga, claro, mas nada mais há a dizer por aí. -- Tuválkin ✉ 00:07, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

Lamberhurst & replies

moved from User_talk:Tuvalkin#File:Station_avec_plaque_tournante_.28par_Ch._Chusseau-Flaviens.29.jpg

Just wondering why you reverted my edit? The name of the station is clearly written on the negative and it is identified as such by the George Eastman foundation which owns the slide. That it looks different from the actual station may be explained by the fact that it was rebuilt in 1926. Lamberhurst (talk) 11:37, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

• I reverted your edit because you’re wrong. If you really do not trust the Portuguese railroad specialists who are trying to figure out all the details of this historical misidentification, I can give you a few tips: First out, the skyline was not affected by the 1926 rebuilding of the station — the photo shows a hilly horizon where only sea-level water exists if this were Cais do Sodré (either the Tagus Estuary if this was seen from west or the Atlantic if from east). Then there are the details of the building, not matching what we know about the pre-1926 station (example), compounded by elements visible on the picture (i.a., platform ramps, turntable, and clock) which are deemed unlikely for this time and place. As said in the talk page, this looks like Valencia de Alcántara, in Spain, a likely stopping point for Ch. Chusseau-Flaviens on his way to Lisbon, and where both the station building and the skyline match this photo till today. Why did you bother to come to my talk page to question my reversal instead of checking the file’s talk page and history first is something I cannot comprehend. -- Tuválkin ✉ 16:09, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

• Lamberhurst, the Cais do Sodré Railway station was installed on a "provisory" facility from its inauguration, in 1895, until 1926. Does the image we are talking about resemble a temporary structure? Of course not. Here is a photo of Cais do Sodré in 1908 (the photo below), and here, here and here in 1910. As you can see, the temporary train station was no more than a few shacks. This is a very portuguese tendency; for example, the São Bento train station, in Oporto, was installed on a series of miserable wooden shacks not unlike the old ones at Cais do Sodré, from 1896 to 1916. And Alfarelos, which is one of the most important train stations in the country, operates from a "provisory" wooden shack since the old building was demolished, in 2001. Gotta love the public works policy in Portugal... -- Ajpvalente (talk) 10:17, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

• Sorry, I hadn't spotted this talk page when I posted my original question and I apologise for not having done so. It is the first time that I have encountered an issue like this. I based my judgment solely on the inscription on the negative and the Eastman website description as I did not imagine that it could be wrong. I had checked the page history but all I found was "Misleading filename with incorrect identification" without any change made to the file description which (still) refers to Cais do Sodre. Lamberhurst (talk) 09:34, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

• It's Ok, the mistake is perfectly understandable. It won't be the first time I have found an incorrect description on a photograph, and I'm sure it won't be the last time. That being said, it still leaves the question of what is the train station on the photograph. -- Ajpvalente (talk) 12:32, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

Arroyo Malpartida?

That being said, it still leaves the question of what is the train station on the photograph. We all agree that it is somewhere in Southwestern Spain, and my best bet is Arroyo Malpartida. The station building is almost identical, but the biggest problem is the hill in the background - Arroyo Malpartida is located in the center of a large, almost featureless plain... -- Ajpvalente (talk) 12:32, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

• I doubt that it is Arroyo Malpartida. From what I could see on photographs, the lintels of the windows are straight there (curved here), and some parts of the building are missing there that are present here. However, there are some hills in the wider area, maybe it is a station further down the line? --Schlosser67 (talk) 10:55, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

• Well, thank you for your opinion. As I said above, I wasn't so sure either, it just seemed the best bet... -- Ajpvalente (talk) 11:18, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

Valencia de Alcántara

@Mhunk: , please explain this edit. Is there conclusive evidence that this is VdA, after all? -- Tuválkin ✉ ✇ 20:25, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

@Tuvalkin: I assumed that the information and espacially the picture given here are correct. It shows the building from a slightly different position. This picture can also be found in Category:Valencia de Alcántara train station. --Mhunk (talk) 16:47, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

Okay, looks good to me. -- Tuválkin ✉ ✇ 23:15, 22 April 2024 (UTC)