Category talk:Coats of arms of cities in Pas-de-Calais

Coats of arms from the International Civic Heraldry site

I have added several Coats-of-arms to this page. Unfortunately, as .jpg format from the original site <http://www.ngw.nl/int/fra> and as a squarer shield with pointy bottoms. I can't turn them into the other style - If anyone wants to, then please do. Thanks Dickiebird 16:20, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Good evening. The use of these images in Wikipedia are allowed, but the license Public domain you chose is not correct. It is clearly stated on the website that «For commercial purposes permission of the council as well as the webmaster of this site is always needed». We can hope that someone will redesign these coats of arms, but for the moment please choose an other license. Regards, Bruno 16:36, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Merci pour votre e-mail. Quel domaine dois-je utiliser, croyez-vous ?

Dickeybird 16 novembre 2007 à 19:33

Bonne question, à laquelle je ne savais pas répondre il y a encore une heure. J'ai donc effectué des recherches, notamment sur Commons:Licensing, où il est clairement établi que :

• tous les documents chargés sur Commons doivent avoir une licence libre ;
• les usages commerciaux doivent être autorisés.

Par conséquent, je pense désormais que les images que vous avez trouvées sur ce site Internet ne doivent pas être chargées sur Commons. Je regrette ces choix qui ont été faits pour Commons, mais la loi est la loi.

Il me semble que rien ne vous empêche en revanche de les charger sur l'un ou l'autre des sites encyclopédiques, dont les règles sont me semble-t-il plus souples. J'ai trouvé sur la page Licence Creative Commons du Wikipédia francophone la licence {{CC-by-nc-nd}} qui me paraît assez adaptée à votre cas puisqu'elle garantit :

• paternité
• pas d'utilisation commerciale
• pas de modification

Mais ces questions me dépassent largement et je vous suggère de vous adresser à des spécialistes qui vous donneront un avis plus autorisé. Posez par exemple la question à Micheletb qui est utilisateur francophone et administrateur de Commons, et qui - de plus - s'intéresse aux blasons.

Bien cordialement, Bruno 20:35, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Hello - bad news ...

The short version is: don't upload on commons CoA from international civic heraldry (or from any site, most of the time). The explanation is ... somehow longer, sorry:

Generally speaking, the author's right on a CoA is attached to the artist that draws a given representation, not to the CoA definition (the blazoning). Therefore, a CoA can be freely drawn after a model (without involving derivative rights), but a given picture "found on the internet" cannot be uploaded: it must be redrawn.

• The coats of arms on international civic heraldry (like most other sites) cannot be used on commons, because the drawings are (most of the time) made by a recent artist who owns the copyright on that specific picture.
• The only "public domain" CoA in such database would be those who are obviously scanned from very old publications - that is almost impossible to identify (but if you find such CoA, go ahead and upload it under a {{PD-old}} template).
• The "disclaimer" information given on http://www.ngw.nl/ is totally surrealistic. The web master clearly does not know what is the copyright status of his pictures (and obviously doesn't care much). The "Use of the images in Wikipedia " clause is meaningless: he can't give to wikipedia a right he doesn't own in the first place, and if he means that he has no objection to our copying from his site, well anybody can copy small amounts of information from a database anyway, forbidding it would be illegal...

So, CoA found on Commons may be (1) reproductions of PD-old artworks, (2) recent artwork with a clear "free" licence, (3) self-made reproductions. The rest should be deleted (and eventually will be). Now, if you hurry to make a .svg version inspired of a to-be-deleted CoA, it's OK: there is no "derivative rights" involved with coats of arms, this is what is meant by "CoA are public domain": the blazoning (description) is PD, indeed, but not a specific drawn representation.

• Coats of arm may (afaik) be uploaded on en:, under the fair use clause. But this is commons, not en:, and fair use is not accepted on commons.

Michelet-密是力 12:49, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

See Commons:Coat of Arms for a complete development. Michelet-密是力 13:04, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Many thanks to you both, Bruno and Michelet, for your input - a lesson well-learnt.
I haven't the time or software to re-create these C-o-A. If they're gone sometime soon, then so be it.
Cordialement
Dickeybird 13:14, 19 November 2007 (UTC)