Commons talk:Village pump

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SpBot archives all sections tagged with {{Section resolved|1=~~~~}} after 30 days. For the archive overview, see Archive/. The latest archive is located at Archive/2019.

Daily section headings[edit]

@Steinsplitter: @Hazard-SJ: Your bots are both adding the daily section headings to this page. There should only be one. :P [1] [2]. Matma Rex (talk) 00:50, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

Hazard-Bot was down for months with no reaction from Hazard-SJ (likely a year ago or moor?). I have taken over the task. Looks like it is back again so i switched off my bot for now. --Steinsplitter (talk) 10:54, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

"Pages with maps"[edit]

Anyone know why Commons:Village pump is currently in the redlinked Category:Pages with maps? - Jmabel ! talk 15:33, 17 June 2016 (UTC)

Commons:Village_pump#Maps_are_now_LIVE_on_Commons_:.29? --Zhuyifei1999 (talk) 16:03, 17 June 2016 (UTC)

Aha! So why is it redlinked? - Jmabel ! talk 16:16, 17 June 2016 (UTC)

Nobody has created a category description yet.Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 16:17, 17 June 2016 (UTC)

Village pumps for other languages[edit]

Why are we linking to a list of "Village pumps for other languages" instead of simply showing the list (by transcluding the template)? This would seem to defeat the purpose of the template in the first place, since readers will have to understand the English message to get to the list that may contain the language they know. - dcljr (talk) 20:15, 27 September 2017 (UTC)

@dcljr: The link is only shown for users who are using en-gb as their UI-language under their settings, for others the template is transcluded. fdms4 made the change (diff) and explained his action at Template talk:Lang-VP.--Snaevar (talk) 23:54, 25 October 2017 (UTC)
Okay, I didn't notice the changes to the template itself before, but that just means that there are two different bad ways that we are linking to the other-language VPs: logged-out users and logged-in English users see the link I described above, while logged-in non-English users get a link to the VP in their selected language (if one exists) and/or a link to the English VP (a bold non-link if they're already viewing the English VP), and a little "globe" Unicode character (🌐) that not everyone will even be able to see but everyone is expected to understand leads to a list of other languages. This is not exactly "multilingual friendly"… - dcljr (talk) 02:47, 28 October 2017 (UTC)
  • +1 to dcljr- Jmabel ! talk 04:04, 28 October 2017 (UTC)
Responded on the template talkpage. Logged-out users with non-English UI languages get internationalised links to their language's VP the same way logged-in users do, so I do believe this is absolutely "multilingual friendly".    FDMS  4    09:36, 28 October 2017 (UTC)
  • There seems to be a strong assumption here that people are either monolingual or speak one (presumably native) language plus English. - Jmabel ! talk 15:27, 28 October 2017 (UTC)

I [dcljr] have decided to continue this discussion here instead of on the template page for the same reason I started the discussion here: this concerns the appearance of the VP (and the other pages the template is transcluded on) more than the appearance of the template page itself. Here's the relevant dicsussion from Template talk:Lang-VP#Why only English and own language?:

@FDMS4: You changed this template to show only English and interface language. These templates are to easily change between localized VPs. For example, I use Hungarian interface and want to reach the Czech VP (happened). I could do this before. Now I can’t. Why? --Tacsipacsi (talk) 08:35, 1 August 2015 (UTC)

@Tacsipacsi: You can reach a list of all VP languages by simply clicking on the globe icon. I think the advantages of this solution (new and experienced users having easier access to the almost always only relevant pages) outweigh the "cost" of this one additional click in this rather uncommon scenario. FDMS 4 14:30, 1 August 2015 (UTC)
@FDMS4: The "cost" is more than a click. The way the template is currently implemented means no one sees the full list of languages unless they follow a link, and that link may be either on English text (which they may have trouble reading) or on a little "globe" Unicode character (🌐), which they may not be able to see (not everyone has a font containing that character). I would suggest we revert this template back to showing the full list of languages and use the "language magic" to simply emphasize the link for the detected language. - dcljr (talk) 02:55, 28 October 2017 (UTC)
@Dcljr: The long list of languages not taking up a significant portion of the screen and thus making other important header instructions invisible is expected behaviour, please explain the concrete problems you believe this has led to. Unicode characters are widely used on project pages, headers and even as category sortkeys, and the globe Unicode character seems to be available to almost all if not all of our visitors. If you believe the use of Unicode characters in general has caused specific problems to arise, please bring this up at a more global venue (such as the VP); should a proposal to replace them by text or files on Commons get required consensus we can easily replace the globe character by a translatewiki-translated {{int:}} text label or a Commons file like the icon used for other languages in the mobile MediaWiki interface. FDMS 4 09:27, 28 October 2017 (UTC)

As I said in my comment of 02:55, 28 October 2017, I would prefer that the template show all the languages again, not just provide different link text.

The stated justifications (that I've seen) for not showing the full list are:

  1. it is a "response to regular non-English posts on the main VP" (stated in an edit summary)
  2. it is more convenient for users to have only one language shown with a link to other languages;
  3. the full list of languages take up too much space.

I can't judge the merits of the first justification, since I don't spend a lot of time here on the VP. The second justification was questioned by Tacsipacsi quite soon after the change was made, but the concerns were dismissed as an "uncommon scenario". (In fact, no one knows how common it is.) As for the third justification, even if the full list were shown on the English VP at full size, on my screen that would take up 3 lines, or about 8% of the visible screen space (vertically), a very small portion of the 2 full screens of "header" material from the top of the page to the TOC. I can't speak to what mobile users would see, but I can't imagine the difference would be very great.

The arguments in favor of using the full list and/or against using the reduced list in its current form include:

  1. the full list does not, in fact, take up an unreasonable amount of space, nor does it distract significantly from the other instructions at the top of the page;
  2. the full list is clearly understandable as a list of languages to almost all users, and most users will see one or more languages they can read in the list;
  3. if everyone sees the full list, there is less chance of any particular user seeing "the wrong thing" (as implied by the following items);
  4. not everyone browses the site in their preferred, native language;
  5. not everyone restricts their attention to discussions in one language;
  6. not all users find it "convenient" for options to be hidden from their view;
  7. the target of the "globe" link, Template:Lang-VP, gives little indication of what it's for, so some users may not understand its significance (unless they follow the link);
  8. some users may not even see a globe character.

For all of these reasons, I ask that the template be reverted back to showing all languages in the list when transcluded. If desired, language detection can be used to provide tailored label text ("Village pumps for other languages" in the various languages) and possibly to emphasize the detected language in some way, but it should not be used to hide any languages from view. What say other users? - dcljr (talk) 02:46, 29 October 2017 (UTC)

I prefer the simple list. On this page I can't find the other languages any longer. And on the French Bistro I only found it because this discussion says that the link exists. But I only see German and English (because I indicates the languages in babel?). When you click on the globe you come to Template:Lang-VP. Do you really think many people know what vp means? (vampire diary, vice president, maybe vodka pomme, or something new like voice print?) If I want to contact someone from another country a list is easier to use. Traumrune (talk) 23:04, 31 October 2017 (UTC)
Agree with all Dcljr's arguments. Using links to other languages is my common scenario. --Wikinade (talk) 15:11, 8 November 2017 (UTC)

Request for assistance with public domain Mauthausen photo[edit]

moved to Commons:Village pump, which is where this should have been. - Jmabel ! talk 23:08, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

First section header[edit]

Does anyone know why the first section header currently says 24 August? None of its subsections were written before October. --HyperGaruda (talk) 08:34, 28 October 2018 (UTC)

Appears to have been this edit by ArchiverBot. No idea why. I've attempted to fix it. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 09:29, 28 October 2018 (UTC)
@-revi, Whym: Why did that happen? What can be done to prevent it happening in the future?   — Jeff G. please ping or talk to me 10:57, 28 October 2018 (UTC)
AFAIK ArchiverBot does not touch/care about that. — regards, Revi 10:59, 28 October 2018 (UTC)
By that, ArchiverBot does not care about any section header that is above section level 2 == section ==. — regards, Revi 11:03, 28 October 2018 (UTC)
@-revi: I request a feature to reasonably archive this VP and other pages similarly constructed.   — Jeff G. please ping or talk to me 11:30, 28 October 2018 (UTC)
Actually, I thought the job to clean up the daily tags lies on Hazard-Bot since it puts the daily section 1 header? I think I saw the daily headers automatically(?) changing to Oldies or sorta. — regards, Revi 11:33, 28 October 2018 (UTC)
@-revi: Per Commons:Bots/Requests/Hazard-Bot 6, it only adds.   — Jeff G. please ping or talk to me 11:49, 28 October 2018 (UTC)
I've been digging through VP's revision history and it looks like the issue has always been there ever since the start of bot-assisted archiving of the page. Once in a while, the date would be manually updated. Still seems silly that a bot cannot do this. --HyperGaruda (talk) 19:48, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
Well, I probably need comment from Whym as well, but I don't intend to support archiving that daily section lv.1 header. We only support lv.2 and there's some upstream ticket to support other level header (couldn't find it), but it probably won't support archiving multiple section header level at the same time. (If we archive section lv.1, it will only probably look for that section level and for lv2, it will just look for lv2.) — regards, Revi 08:11, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
@-revi: Daily section lv.1 headers are being archived currently (see for example these edits), just badly and never the first one. Do we really need them?   — Jeff G. please ping or talk to me 08:51, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
We can't support people using bots in unsupported ways (this is such case, because our bot only works with ==section==). I don't know why that was being added after all <_< — regards, Revi 08:54, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
@Hazard-SJ, EugeneZelenko, Dschwen: You participated in Commons:Bots/Requests/Hazard-Bot 6, what do you think?   — Jeff G. please ping or talk to me 09:26, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
Yeah, perhaps a practical solution might be to stop writing daily headings. And maybe, there could be a JavaScript gadget to insert pseudo headings to separate days dynamically without adding them in wikitext, instead? People wouldn't miss the edit link in "October 28 [edit]" and the ability to edit a day's worth of sections at the same time too much if it won't be available, would they? --whym (talk) 12:40, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
w:d:Wikidata:Project chat is also huge and don't use date-based headers. --EugeneZelenko (talk) 14:29, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
Re: modifying the archive bot to support it - the short answer is, the problem is recognized (phab:T119791) but difficult to solve. The reason many (but not all) 1st level headings went to the archives here was because they were 'ignored' - they were treated like any other potion of the text, and were moved together with the comments directly above them. If the solution above (of not using daily headings) works instead, that would be great. whym (talk) 12:40, 8 November 2018 (UTC)