File talk:Abortion Laws.svg

Keine Information

Die grauen Gebiete mit keine Information zu bezeichnen halte ich für falsch. Soweit ich das erkennen kann sind drei Gebiete grau: 1.) Die Antarktis: Hier dürfte es wohl kaum Regeln zu Schwangerschaftsabbrüchen geben, da die Antarktis kein Staat ist. Nach dem Antarktisvertrag richtet sich das Recht der anwesenden Personen nach dem recht ihrer Heimatstaaten. 2.) Die Südsahara: Völkerrechtlich gehört dieses Gebiet nicht zu Marokko, was jedoch nichts daran ändert, dass faktisch dort marokkanisches Recht gilt und somit die Abtreibung dort den selben Regelungen unterliegt wie in Marokko. 3.) Palästina: Völkerrechtlich kein Teil Israels aber von Israel besetzt, aber mit teilweiser Selbstverwaltung. Was dort gilt weiß ich nicht, könnte man aber möglicherweise recherchieren. --80.187.97.137 15:56, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Karte zu Äthiopien gehört aktualisiert

Seit einigen Jahren hat das afrikanische Land Äthiopien in Afrika ein liberales Abtreibungsrecht.

• Wissen:Abtreibung soll Äthiopiens Bevölkerungsexplosion stoppen

Die Karte gehört daher farblich zu Äthiopien in einen Blauton geändert.

Sprachversionen

Die Übersetzungen der Legende unterscheiden sich inhaltlich erheblich. Das englische "Legal on reques" entspricht mit Nichten einem "Legal ohne Folgen".

Aussage

Die Grundaussage der Grafik ist nicht erkennbar. So ist etwa die Kennzeichnung als "legal" in keiner Weise weiter eingeschränkt. Tatsächlich gibt es aber m.E. kaum ein Land in dem Schwangerschaftsabbrüche ohne weitere Bedingungen oder Einschränkungen einfach zu jeder Zeit legal sind.--WerWil (talk) 17:55, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

South Sudan

Add missing South Sudan. Someone could update it? MauriManya (talk) 21:15, 17 October 2012 (UTC)

false abortion law map (at least in English)

THE ABORTION LAW MAP IN ENGLISH IS FALSE (AT LEAST WHAT COMES TO 'FINLAND'). THE CORRECT ONE: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/56/AbortionLawsMap-NoLegend.png/800px-AbortionLawsMap-NoLegend.png

Germany (Deutschland)

According to https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abtreibung#Deutschland and http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/stgb/__218.html Abortion is illegal in Germany but tolerated in some cases.

+ De jure, abortions are illegal in Germany. However, they are not subject to prosecution within the first 12 weeks or if the woman’s life is endangered. Doctors are not allowed to promote that they perform abortions. Only the state publishes lists of doctors. —A11w1ss3nd (留言) 20:41, 22 January 2020 (UTC)

Abortion laws map is incorrect

The abortion law map for the UK is incorrect. It should be blue. Abortion is legal on request in the UK. Please can someone change this?

It isn't by law; it's just that one provision for allowance is interpreted very widely.Originalpost (留言) 15:44, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

Morocco

It seems it's wrong color in Morocco. Orange should be replaced by yellow because Morocco in May 2015 authorized abortion in cases of incest, rape, and in cases of fetal malformation. Nikola62 (留言) 09:14, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

Wrong color is always on the map. Morocco needs to be changed, orange to brown. Nikola62 (留言) 11:27, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

Illogical legend

The "and/or" exceptions in the legend logically makes the orange category a subcategory of each of the brown, yellow and green categories (and so on). The categories should be mutually exclusive, which could be achieved e.g. by removing the "or" in the green, yellow and brown categories. But is the map still correct then? --134.95.213.101 18:26, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

Chile

Chile's lawmakers take key step toward decriminalizing abortion. The Health Commission of Chile's Chamber of Deputies voted eight to five to move forward on President Michelle Bachelet's landmark proposal to allow pregnancy terminations in certain circumstances. Bachelet's proposals would allow an abortion if a mother's life is in danger, if a fetus is unviable or when a pregnancy is a result of rape. [1]

That's not relevant to the map if there's not a change in the law yet.--Af1391 (留言) 00:52, 10 April 2016 (UTC)

Chile should be changed to orange status, or orange legend should be modified and another category added (the use of and/or makes it too wide). The correct interpretation of the Chilean Sanitary Code and the actual aplication of the criminal law allows performing an abortion in order to save the mother's life, with the condition that the abortion itself is not the end of the medical action to save the mother, but an undesired consecuence of it. For more information, please go to the more comprehensive and less biased Aborto en Chile article in Spanish (https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aborto_en_Chile). You can find a lot of references there regarding this subject (in Spanish of course).--Af1391 (留言) 00:22, 10 April 2016 (UTC)

Indonesia

Indonesia allows abortion in case of rape: http://www.trust.org/item/20140815091307-uiczg/ http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2014/08/24/why-indonesia-should-legalize-abortion.html http://www.lawteacher.net/free-law-essays/medical-law/abortion-policy-in-indonesia-medical-law-essay.php

Turkey

Abortion is in Turkey legal during the first ten pregnancy weeks only in case of rape, incest, fetal defects and socioeconomic factors. Thus, Turkey needs to be shown green on the map. --212.186.14.29 20:37, 17 July 2016 (UTC)

Source of data?

Without a source this map is worthless. 2001:14BA:8300:0:0:0:0:BC27 16:40, 30 April 2017 (UTC)

Ireland

Should this be updated after the vote in Ireland? Or is there a bit of waiting before it comes fully into effect? ~ nicolas (留言) 15:11, 27 May 2018 (UTC) _ Ireland should be updated. The votum was already in May 2018 and now we have August 2018. --178.3.16.4 17:02, 8 August 2018 (UTC)

South Korea

Please update South Korea: after constitutional court's rule legal on demand now (blue). Regards --Agathenon (留言) 18:01, 19 April 2019 (UTC)

Alabama

What about Alabama, where it's legal only to rescue mother's life? Banana22100 (留言) 14:31, 26 September 2019 (UTC)

Isle of Man

I think the Isle of Man needs updating in the map:

• Isle of Man becomes first place in British Isles to decriminalise abortion
• Date set for Isle of Man abortion reform to come into force

Del_Usion23 (talk) 16:55, 22 October 2019 (UTC)

Updates needed

Angola should be yellow and Oaxaca (Mexico) should be blue. See main page for alignment. — 以上未簽名的留言是由該使用者加入的： Finedelledanze (留言 • 貢獻) 09:44, 17 March 2020 (UTC)

German section 218 and 218a

@Glentamara: As I said before, it is simultaneously legal and illegal in German criminal code.

---

Section 218 Abortion

(1) Whoever terminates a pregnancy incurs a penalty of imprisonment for a term not exceeding three years or a fine. Acts whose effects occur before nidation is completed are not deemed to be a termination of pregnancy within the meaning of this statute.

(2) In especially serious cases, the penalty is imprisonment for a term of between six months and five years. An especially serious case typically occurs where the offender

1. acts against the will of the pregnant woman or

2. recklessly places the pregnant woman in danger of death or at risk of serious damage to health.

(3) If the act is committed by the pregnant woman, the penalty is imprisonment for a term not exceeding one year or a fine.

(4) The attempt is punishable. The pregnant woman is not liable for attempt.

---

https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html

As in your edit summary

---

Section 218a Exemption from punishment for abortion

(1) The elements of the offence under section 218 are not deemed fulfilled if

1. the pregnant woman requests the termination of pregnancy and demonstrates to the physician by producing the certificate referred to in section 219 (2) sentence 2 that she obtained counselling at least three days prior to the procedure,

2. the termination is performed by a physician and

3. no more than 12 weeks have elapsed since conception.

(2) A termination which is performed by a physician with the consent of the pregnant woman is not unlawful if, considering the pregnant woman’s present and future circumstances, the termination is medically necessary to avert a danger to the life of or the danger of grave impairment to the pregnant woman’s physical or mental health and if the danger cannot be averted in another manner which is reasonable for her to accept.

(3) The conditions of subsection (2) are also deemed fulfilled with regard to a termination performed by a physician with the consent of the pregnant woman if, according to medical opinion, an unlawful act under sections 176 to 178 has been committed against the pregnant woman, there are cogent reasons to support the assumption that the pregnancy was caused by the act and no more than 12 weeks have elapsed since conception.

(4) The pregnant woman does not incur the penalty specified in section 218 if the termination was performed by a physician after counselling (section 219) and no more than 22 weeks have elapsed since conception. The court may dispense with imposing a penalty pursuant to section 218 if the pregnant woman was in exceptional distress at the time of the procedure.

---

https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html . Do you understand why I put both colors because it is either one or the other? — 以上未簽名的留言是由該使用者加入的： Manabimasu (留言 • 貢獻) 01:54, 2 July 2020 (UTC) Manabimasu

No, it's not both legal and illegal at the same time (it goes without saying that that's impossible). Section 218 establishes a main principle, namely that it is illegal to terminate a pregnancy. However, section 218a then derogates this under certain circumstances, i.e., under these circumstances it is not illegal to perform an abortion. --Glentamara (留言) 06:49, 2 July 2020 (UTC)

@Glentamara: Yes, there are two cases legal and illegal that is what I am trying to inform the viewer maybe the word simultaneously sounded confusing as I used the word from the English Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Germany. A better understanding is either-or. Should I create a new file and create additional legends to show my proposed change?Manabimasu (留言) 14:45, 2 July 2020 (UTC)

@Glentamara: can you reply to my previous comment if I should upload as a separate file? Otherwise, I may revert to my edit as in Commons:Overwriting_existing_files#Controversial_or_contested_changes as implicit agreement to the change. Let me know if you still maintain that the change should not occur, so I can upload a new file.Manabimasu (留言) 16:38, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

I still don't get your point. In what regard is German legislation different from other countries? As far as I know, abortion is illegal in all countries, except possibly for a limited time at the start of the pregnancy. --Glentamara (留言) 17:29, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

Rape in Great Britain

I'm just noting here that, following on the hidden note in the map caption here and the discussion here (and possibly elsewhere on that WP article talk page), some have argued that even though the rape exception is not available de-jure in some UK countries other than Northern Ireland, it is available de-facto. I don't follow discussions on talk pages here, so please ping me in wikipedia if further input here from me is needed. Cheers. Wtmitchell (留言) 19:49, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

Crimea

When hovering over the Crimea peninsula, my browser shows wrongfully the text "Russia", althought that peninsula belongs to Ukraine. This should be corrected. 194.62.169.86 19:06, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

The purpose of this map is to show the laws that apply in each place. It includes Crimea in Russia because the laws of Russia apply there in practice. Other disputed areas are shown similarly. Heitordp (留言) 10:12, 14 October 2020 (UTC)

Poland

Poland needs to be updated to: Risk to woman's life*, her health*, or rape [2] Natanieluz (留言) 14:34, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

The ruling in Poland has not come into effect yet. The map should be updated after that. Heitordp (留言) 20:28, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

Odd colors

It makes it look like abortion was a good thing, while protection of human life was a bad thing. Colors should be reversed or changed to ideologically neutral. 83.142.158.29 19:35, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

I agree that neutral colors would be better, but it would require changing the legend in all articles that use this file, in several languages. Heitordp (留言) 15:46, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

To me a ban is like a NO and NOs are generally colored red in opposition to YES, which is green like in a traffic light. If a ban is absolute, then black makes sense to me. It's not about 'good' vs 'bad'. Keeping with the traffic light metaphor, when it is red, it's good that you stop.. for yourself and th others.. Finedelledanze (留言) 08:16, 10 February 2021 (UTC)

Argentina

FelipeRev, Gaston Fer: This map is supposed to reflect only laws in force. Just like it does not consider laws that have been invalidated by judicial decisions (such as in some US states and South Korea), it should not consider laws that have not yet taken effect (such as in Argentina, Angola and Haiti). However, in the case of Argentina, I agree to let it remain blue on the map as the law is expected to take effect in only a few days, and to avoid multiple reverts by other users.

In addition, next time please edit the map as a text file, moving the country codes to the appropriate sections, to preserve its structure and file size. Thanks. Heitordp (留言) 19:19, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

Heitordp that was for me or for Felipe? Gaston Fer (留言) 00:05, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

It was mainly for Felipe. Heitordp (留言) 06:35, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

Honduras

it should be Black https://www.bbc.com/mundo/noticias-america-latina-55760365 (in spanish) Gaston Fer (留言) 05:56, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

Thanks, I updated it. Heitordp (留言) 15:46, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

Wrong color of Poland on map.

Hey, on that map Poland should me listed with this color: #c17d11 (Risk to woman's life*, to her health*, or rape.) Can you update that? Thx, Natanieluz (留言) 22:35, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

Poland has been updated. Heitordp (留言) 15:46, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

Gibraltar

After the abortion referendum of 24 June, Gibraltar's red dot should turn into green. Finedelledanze (留言) 13:49, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

Texas

Texas has a de facto ban on abortion. CookieMonster755 (留言) 17:01, 4 September 2021 (UTC)

As i know this is a de iure map Gaston Fer (留言) 21:27, 7 September 2021 (UTC)

Northern Ireland?

I noticed Northern Ireland is not coloured the same as the rest of the UK. Is this intentional?

- Itswikisam, 4:09 PM WAST — 以上未簽名的留言是由該使用者加入的： Itswikisam (留言 • 貢獻) 08:09, 11 February 2022 (UTC)

@Itswikisam: Yes, see the table in Abortion law. Northern Ireland has a different abortion law from the rest of the UK. Heitordp (留言) 11:41, 20 February 2022 (UTC)

Constitutional Court of Colombia decriminalizes abortion until 24 weeks gestation

• https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/02/21/world/colombia-court-abortion
• https://washingtonpost.com/world/2022/02/21/colombia-decriminalize-legal-abortion/ — Preceding unsigned comment was added by 190.90.140.182 (talk) 22:17, 21 February 2022 (UTC)

Texas

Texas is currently in the category of "Prohibited with exceptions for maternal life, maternal health*, and fetal defects". I believe the law doesn't make an exception for fetal defects. Depending on the interpretation of the legend, I think it should be in either "Prohibited with exceptions for maternal life and maternal health", "Prohibited with exceptions for maternal life", or "Allowed on request, with a gestational limit in the first 17 weeks". --Antondimak (留言) 07:15, 25 June 2022 (UTC)

However, I think it's a bit misleading that Europe's and Texas's abortion laws are in he same category under "Allowed on request, with a gestational limit in the first 17 weeks.". The 6-week limit is almost a total ban in practice. --Antondimak (留言) 16:18, 3 July 2022 (UTC)

#A000FF

@Wolfman5678: This is the color for "Allowed on request, with an unclear gestational limit". So it's neither "Allowed on request, with a gestational limit of 6 weeks" nor "Allowed in unclear circumstances". Does the currently so colored US-state in fact fit this description? Habitator terrae 🌍 19:22, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

Yes, because the legislation on some of the US states is ambiguous and does not fit in a single category And some do not even have exceptions for rape or incest. So it is allowed in theory but banned in practise. Wolfman5678 (留言) 21:09, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

What do you mean with "does not fit in a single category"? It seems still to be, this is the wrong color, because if there is either no gestational limit with unclear exception or the existence of a gestational limit is unclear this is wrong (proposed color: grey), same as if there is a clear gestational limit for on request with unclear other exceptions (proposed color: dark blue). Habitator terrae 🌍 09:24, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

Utah

@Wolfman5678: I noticed that you have changed the color of Utah to dark blue multiple times. However, the dark blue color is for a gestational limit in the first 17 weeks, and the limit in Utah is 18 weeks, so its color should still be the middle shade of blue as before. Do you agree?

In addition, when you make changes, please do not save the file with software like Inkscape as it disrupts the file structure and increases the file size unnecessarily. Please open the file with a text editor and edit it according to the instructions there, only moving the code of the country or region to the appropriate line. Thank you. Heitordp (留言) 03:09, 22 July 2022 (UTC)

Ok understood thanks Wolfman5678 (留言) 22:23, 22 July 2022 (UTC)

Canada, Mexico, Hungary, Oz

AFACT, there are no criminal penalties in Canada, so it should be the same color as Alaska. There are procedural rules and limits on availability, but that's not law. E.g. there's no abortion in N.Ireland, but we still color it as legal to 12 weeks; similarly, abortion is readily available in GB and Finland, and readily available past 17 weeks in Ukraine and Belarus, but we color them as illegal or as 12 weeks, as that's the letter of the law. So to be consistent shouldn't we do the same for Canada?

In Mexico, the Supreme Court has declared penalties for abortion in the first trimester to be unconstitutional, and even defined 'aborto' to be termination in the 2nd or 3rd trimester, and abortions are openly advertised and performed in states like Nuevo Leone and Jalisco, so might we want to color the whole country be colored as legal? (Rather different than Canada, where abortion is legal without limit under both national and local law.)

In Hungary it's legal to 12 weeks AFAICT. In N.Territory, Aust, to 24 weeks if provider considers it appropriate.

Also, what does "17 weeks" mean? In most of the US, weeks are counted from LMP, in Canada from fertilization, and in Mexico and Massachusetts from implantation. So "17 weeks" means something different in each of those countries. Kwamikagami (留言) 06:02, 27 July 2022 (UTC)

@Kwamikagami: See the notes and sources in the tables in the article on abortion law regarding each of these countries. Most of them have also been discussed multiple times in the talk page of that article (see also archive 3). In sum:

• In Canada, the laws do not directly prohibit abortion, but they prohibit people who are not medical professionals from performing abortions (like any medical procedure), they require that medical professionals follow regulations made by specific entities, and these regulations do impose gestational limits. This is not just a matter of availability, individual doctors are not allowed to perform abortions contrary to the regulations, otherwise they may lose their license, without which they cannot legally perform abortions. The map is supposed to reflect all legal limits, not just laws directly passed by a parliament but also regulations from entities that the laws authorize. Similar examples are Bahrain and Laos, where the laws only prohibit abortion not authorized by a medical professional, but health regulations that the professionals must follow prohibit abortion on request. The WHO, which is generally used as a basis for this map, unless indicated otherwise by better or more recent sources, also cites gestational limits in Canada.[3]
• In Northern Ireland, abortion pills for up to 10 weeks of gestation are available at least in some areas. Only surgical abortions are not.
• In Great Britain, Finland, Hungary, Belarus, Ukraine, Northern Territory in Australia, and others, there is a distinction between abortion on request and for social reasons. This map follows the classification by the WHO, which maintains this distinction.
• In Mexico, the decision by the Supreme Court only affected the state of Coahuila. In other states, people can still be prosecuted for abortions that violate state law, and indeed there have been such prosecutions even after the Supreme Court decision. People can prevent prosecution by requesting an individual judicial order called amparo, and if prosecuted they must be judged based on the Supreme Court precedent. But reliable sources from Mexico still say that this situation is not considered as legally allowing abortion on request, until the state changes the law.[4]
• For this map, the weeks are considered from the last menstrual period. For countries where the starting point is unclear, LMP is assumed as this is the medical standard for counting a pregnancy. It's also used in most of Canada. But in any case, the threshold of 17 weeks was chosen specifically to avoid this question. For example, in Mexico the limit is set as 12 or 13 weeks, but even though it's counted from implantation it's still under 17 weeks LMP. There are very few countries with an unclear starting point that might make it under or over 17 weeks depending on the definition. Heitordp (留言) 19:10, 27 July 2022 (UTC)

  Thanks. That makes sense. Kwamikagami (留言) 19:50, 27 July 2022 (UTC)

  As far as I can tell, those guidelines aren't binding in any way. They just serve as suggestions, and physicians are ultimately allowed to do what they consider best. The only implementation of such regulations seems to be at the level of the hospital, I can't find any singular group which regulates all hospitals in an entire province.

I couldn't find any articles which indicate that those guidelines are mandatory in any way, or that they apply to every hospital and physician provincewide. — Preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.112.197.130 (talk) 08:58, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

https://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/montreal-woman-who-had-late-abortion-says-she-made-the-right-decision

https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/how-canada-came-to-have-no-federal-law-whatsoever-on-abortion

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/05/30/why-is-canada-so-afraid-debating-abortion/

This article mentions that such guidelines exist, but doesn't mention what they are, who sets them, how they're enforced, or what happens if they're broken.

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/letters/todays-letters-late-trimester-abortions-are-not-happening-in-canada-without-a-reason

65.112.197.130 08:34, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

The sources provided for those restrictions do not mention any restrictions anywhere, but simply state that there is no way to obtain one later on. — Preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.112.197.130 (talk) 09:13, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

https://nafcanada.org/abortion-coverage-region/

https://www.actioncanadashr.org/resources/factsheets-guidelines/2019-09-19-access-glance-abortion-services-canada — Preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.112.197.130 (talk) 09:15, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

The guidelines are not just suggestions, they are mandatory and enforced by the College of Physicians of the respective province. For example, the abortion guidelines of the College of Physicians of Quebec say that "the professional inspection committee regularly undertakes, within a reasonable delay, activities of surveillance of the practice of its members, with regard to the implementation of its recommendations."[5]. Similarly, the College of Physicians and Surgeons of Alberta says that its standards of practice are "enforceable under the Health Professions Act and often used in complaints resolution and disciplinary hearings",[6] and the provincial abortion policy says that "Compliance with this document is required by all Alberta Health Services employees, members of the medical and midwifery staffs, Students, Volunteers, and other persons acting on behalf of Alberta Health Services (including contracted service providers as necessary) working in Women's Health."[7]

In the case that you cited above, the woman was denied an abortion in the first hospital and allowed in the second one, but that's not because each hospital had different regulations. All doctors in the province were supposed to follow the same guidelines, which said that abortions after 23 weeks were reserved for congenital anomalies and exceptional clinical situations. What happened was that the doctors in the first hospital considered that her clinical situation did not satisfy an exception, while the second one considered that it did. But that was a difference in the application of the guidelines to that specific case, not a difference in the guidelines themselves. This is similar to how for example two judges may rule differently on a specific case, even though the law is the same. Heitordp (留言) 06:20, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

Tennessee total ban

Tennessee's total ban goes into effect on the 25th of August. The ban does not contain an exception for the life of the mother in it, although it does contain an affirmative defense, which is a defense that the person who performed the abortion could use once they are charged by proving that the abortion was necessary to save the life of the mother. Does that warrant changing Tennessee to black once the ban takes effect? President Loki (留言) 01:35, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

@President Loki: There are several countries and also other US states where the exceptions to abortion law are also written in a similar way, with only defense against prosecution if charged, or only removal of penalty while still classifying it as a crime, or under a general legal principle, and the map reflects them as allowing abortion in these cases. The government of Tennessee has also declared that it considers the law as allowing abortion in such cases, and I find it more appropriate to rely on what the government concludes about its own laws than the opinions of lawyers. So for consistency, I think that Tennessee should be marked orange. Heitordp (留言) 15:57, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

Finland

Finland updated its abortion law. Now abortion is possible up to the first 12 weeks on request. Minilammas (留言) 17:07, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

@Minilammas: The change in the law will come into force on 1 September 2023. The map should be updated at that time. Heitordp (留言) 19:32, 23 January 2023 (UTC)

@Heitordp: Even though I am a Finn I didn't even realize it comes into force on September 1st. I thought it already came into force on January 1st. Thanks for correcting. Minilammas (留言) 19:48, 23 January 2023 (UTC)

Canada and Australia

I believe Canada and Australia have no legal restrictions on abortion. They both have provincial and state guidelines which dictate how late they can be performed without a medical reason, but these aren't laws. 75.27.37.89 02:00, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

This map shows the legality of abortion reflecting not only explicit laws, but also regulations, legal principles and judicial decisions. The laws of Canada do not directly deal with abortion, but they prohibit medical practice without a license and authorize a single institution in each province to issue such licenses and to make regulations that licensed professionals must follow. These regulations are not just suggested guidelines. Professionals who violate them may lose their licenses, without which they cannot legally practice medicine, including providing abortions. So these regulations should still be considered legal restrictions, even if not established directly the legislatures. See the previous discussion on this topic here.

All states of Australia do have explicit laws on abortion. See the links to each law in the tables here. Heitordp (留言) 10:46, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Could I see a source that indicates those rules are mandatory? I've been looking for such information for a while, but I can't find it. I'm as pro choice as anyone, but even I feel a little disturbed that my country has no protection at all for viable fetuses, even though nearly every other country does. I've heard there's a legally recognised medical association in each province who sets the rules, but I can't find much information on who those organisations are and what their policies are. Other people say it's the individual hospitals who set their own policies, or even that it's only up to each physician, indicating that the gestational limits are simply a result of the latest that it's offered. I've also heard that those rules are just guidelines that physicians have no obligation to follow. And I've even heard that those limits refer to what each province will pay for. If I hear that there's a group that functions in place of laws, that's fine with me. But if I hear that the gestational limit comes down to nothing other than individual physicians following vague suggestions, then I'm not exactly reassured. I'll be fair and admit I know late term abortions don't happen with a valid reason. But still it feels a little upsetting to know that the whole country and the government imply that they would be fine with it. I need to see exactly what those rules are that you're talking about, who sets them, how they're enforced, and what happens if they're not followed.

After all, very country in Europe has cutoff dates, and it's not considered an issue there. These aren't far right theocracies either, these are countries like the Netherlands which Canadian feminists pretend to envy in every other scenario. Sweden is much more pro choice than Canada according to polls, and they have an 18 week cutoff date, which nobody complains about. France has a limit of 12 weeks, which would be unthinkable even in the United States where Roe v Wade prohibits states from restricting abortion before the 26th week. Meanwhile in Canada, it feels like the mere mention of restricting abortion even late in pregnancy is considered a “divisive issue” that even Conservative voters don’t want to discuss. In a country that’s willing to pass laws and regulations on almost everything else imaginable (we have laws restricting free speech and we prohibit the carrying of pepper spray), this is the one time where they want the US libertarian “small government” principles to apply. If you want to implement that "personal liberties" approach (which the Republicans pretend to believe in when it's convenient for them), then you don't get to pick and choose where and when you do and don't want to follow it. And currently we're in company with China, Vietnam, North Korea, Cuba, the former Soviet Union, and East Germany. Great examples of human rights right there.

TLDR I want to find a valid source indicating that there's actually a binding set of rules that physicians must follow.

At least some provinces have binding rules. For example, the College of Physicians of Quebec says that abortions after 23 weeks are reserved to exceptional cases, and that it regularly verifies whether its members are following its abortion guidelines.[8] There was an actual case of a woman who was denied an abortion in Quebec for this reason.[9] The College of Physicians and Surgeons of Alberta specifies a limit of 20 weeks for abortion not done in hospitals,[10] and Alberta Health Services, which is part of the provincial government and administers hospitals, limits abortion after 21 weeks to certain circumstances.[11] Heitordp (留言) 03:13, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

Legislating agencies

Should we include a statement which explains that the laws are not all identical throughout each country? For example, Canada actually has no laws governing abortion. However, it is regulated by the legally recognised medical associations, who set rules such as gestational age limits. Although there are no criminal penalties for violating their rules, doing so would likely cost a physician her licence. And since Canadian law prohibits practicing medicine without a medical licence, this means they're essentially legally required to operate within the guidelines. Meanwhile, the United States and Australia also have no laws about abortion, although their states and other subdivisions have their own laws. However, most states in Australia only have a limit at which point an abortion requires a physician's approval, a decision which is not subject to any government legislation. The US states of New Hampshire, Vermont, Maine, New Jersey, Oregon, Colorado, New Mexico, Alaska, the District of Columbia, and Puerto Rico have no legal cutoff date, as does the Australian Capital Territory. Also, most other blue states, including New York, California, Washington, Hawaii, Illinois, Michigan, and a few other states have the same laws as Australia, with a law stating the point of viability, but with no legal requirements for what constitutes a valid reason to abort after that point, and no criminal penalties for doing so. Multiple countries such as New Zealand, Sweden, and the Netherlands also have the same rules, where the law simply lays out a set of guidelines that are created by physicians and enforced at the consent of those same physicians. It's true that many countries in Europe have early cutoff dates compared to what people in the United States would be used to, although there are very generous exceptions should a woman need an abortion later on. And even the ones that have criminal penalties only have them for the physician, and not for the woman. There is no movement to regulate women's bodies in the EU like there is in US states like Texas and Alabama, with possible exceptions for Ireland and Poland. Any laws that are in place are to ensure patient safety and ensure a standard of care, not to legislate people's lives. They don't throw anyone in prison for life or charge heavy fines because they aborted a nonviable fetus for reasons that aren't explicitly allowed in the legal texts. If you want to find that you'll have to go to Latin American and the Middle East. While there are regulations on abortion everywhere in the world (including Canada and Australia), there aren't legal restrictions in most developed nations. I think it's an oversimplification to say that France and Germany and the United Kingdom have more restrictive abortion laws than the United States. We need to explain the nuances behind the rules. 75.27.37.89 05:29, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

The details and nuances are explained in the Wikipedia articles about the abortion law of each country. The purpose of the map is to provide an overview, it's not possible to show all the details on the map. But the map is correct, the abortion laws of the United States vary widely by state, some states are indeed more permissive than most European countries, while others are more restrictive. Heitordp (留言) 06:25, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

Canada and Australia and New Zealand

Should Canada, Australia, and New Zealand be shaded in light blue, to indicate no gestational limit? Canada has no laws on abortion whatsoever, while Australia and New Zealand have completely decriminalized the procedure through legislative action. 192.34.130.224 21:20, 3 September 2023 (UTC)

No. See my replies about Canada and Australia above. The laws of Canada do not explicitly mention abortion, but they prohibit medical practice without a license and authorize a single institution in each province to issue such licenses and to make regulations that licensed professionals must follow, and these regulations in turn specify gestational limits for abortion depending on the circumstance. The map shows the legality of abortion reflecting not only explicit laws, but also regulations, legal principles and judicial decisions.

Australia and New Zealand have not completely decriminalized abortion. The laws of all Australian states, of the Northern Territory and of New Zealand still specify criminal penalties for abortion not done by a medical professional, and they specify gestational limits for abortions done by medical professionals depending on the circumstance. See the references in the tables in the article on abortion law. Only a few small Australian territories allow abortion without any restriction. Heitordp (留言) 01:52, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

Actually, Australia and New Zealand have completely decriminalised abortion. The Wikipedia article for "abortion in Australia" says "abortion is fully decriminalised", while the article for "abortion in New Zealand" says "the criminal status of abortion has been completely removed". 75.27.37.89 10:45, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not a reliable source, and the Wikipedia articles that you mentioned are misleading. The articles mean that in Australia and New Zealand there are no criminal penalties for abortions done by medical professionals, but their laws still specify limits that they must follow, and there are still criminal penalties for abortion done by people who are not medical professionals. For example, New South Wales:

"5 Termination by medical practitioners at not more than 22 weeks

(1) A person who is a medical practitioner may perform a termination on a person who is not more than 22 weeks pregnant.

(2) The medical practitioner may perform the termination on the person only if the medical practitioner has obtained informed consent to the termination from—

(a) the person, or

(b) if the person lacks the capacity to give informed consent to the termination, a person lawfully authorised to give consent on the person’s behalf.

(3) However, subsection (2) does not apply if, in an emergency, it is not practicable to obtain the person’s informed consent.

6 Termination by medical practitioner after 22 weeks

(1) A specialist medical practitioner may perform a termination on a person who is more than 22 weeks pregnant if—

(a) the specialist medical practitioner, after considering the matters mentioned in subsection (3) and any advice received under subsection (4), considers that, in all the circumstances, there are sufficient grounds for the termination to be performed, and

(b) the specialist medical practitioner has consulted with another specialist medical practitioner who, after considering the matters mentioned in subsection (3), also considers that, in all the circumstances, there are sufficient grounds for the termination to be performed, and

(c) the specialist medical practitioner has obtained informed consent to the termination from—

(i) the person, or

(ii) if the person lacks the capacity to give informed consent to the termination, a person lawfully authorised to give consent on the person’s behalf, and

(d) the termination is performed at—

(i) a hospital controlled by a statutory health organisation, within the meaning of the Health Services Act 1997, or

(ii) an approved health facility."[12]

"Division 12 Termination of pregnancies by unqualified persons

82 Termination of pregnancy performed by unqualified person

(1) An unqualified person who performs a termination on another person commits an offence.

Maximum penalty—7 years imprisonment."[13]

The laws of other Australian states are similar.

And New Zealand:

10 Provision of abortion services to women not more than 20 weeks pregnant

A qualified health practitioner may provide abortion services to a woman who is not more than 20 weeks pregnant.

11 Provision of abortion services to women more than 20 weeks pregnant

(1) A qualified health practitioner may only provide abortion services to a woman who is more than 20 weeks pregnant if the health practitioner reasonably believes that the abortion is clinically appropriate in the circumstances.

183 Abortion procured by person other than health practitioner

(1) A person commits an offence and is liable on conviction to a term of imprisonment not exceeding 5 years if the person is not a health practitioner and—

(a) procures, or attempts to procure, an abortion for a woman; or

(b) performs, or attempts to perform, an abortion on a woman.[14]

Heitordp (留言) 15:00, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

Mexico

Now legal on demand nationwide. Might anybody update to violet? Thanks & best regards, Agathenon (留言) 13:11, 10 September 2023 (UTC)

@Agathenon: The news article that you cited and many others have misunderstood this judicial decision. The decision only invalidates the federal law that prohibited abortion, but the state laws remain unaffected. The result is that federal health facilities anywhere in the country may provide abortion without prosecution, but state and private health facilities are still subject to the respective state laws.[15][16][17] Therefore, the map should not be changed due to this decision. Heitordp (留言) 09:31, 11 September 2023 (UTC)

Is it at least possible to stripe whole Mexico with violet or to include the nationwide law in a different way? The actual version is still misleading because it doesn't show the legality in all federal hospitals. Best regards, Agathenon (留言) 12:29, 13 September 2023 (UTC)

Canada has no laws restricting abortion

Canada doesn't have any laws about abortion, so it should appear in light blue. Sure, later abortions are still restricted by the availability of doctors who are willing to perform them, or who are even trained to do so. But there's no law that prohibits an abortion the day before giving birth, even if no person who doesn't watch Fox News believes it ever happens. Even if no doctor would do such a thing, and no woman would ever ask for it, there's no rule saying that they can't, and there would be no penalties if they did. The only regulations on abortion are guidelines which physicians are suggested to follow. The only gestational age limit is the limit at which it's possible to obtain an abortion in a particular province, it has nothing to do with any sort of rules or restrictions. 65.112.197.130 04:56, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

The guidelines set by the College of Physicians in each province are mandatory and are regularly enforced, they are not just suggestions. Please see my reply to your comment above. Heitordp (留言) 06:26, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

I can't say for sure about every province's College of Physicians, but it's definitely wrong for Québec. In 2022, the Québec College of Physicians rannounced a suspension of all restrictions for access to abortion pills. The map needs to either change or be deleted, because it looks like it's made by people who either don't know or don't care about what the actual rules are. https://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/sante/2022-07-14/acces-a-l-avortement-au-quebec/le-college-des-medecins-leve-toutes-les-restrictions-d-acces-a-la-pilule-abortive.php#:~:text=Le%20Coll%C3%A8ge%20des%20m%C3%A9decins%20a,qui%20r%C3%A9jouit%20le%20milieu%20m%C3%A9dical.ADM (留言) 08:49, 4 February 2024 (UTC)

@ADM: I set the colors of Canadian provinces on the map in 2021, based on the sources that I found at the time, which I cited above. Those sources indeed indicated that there were gestational limits and that they were enforced. If this is no longer the case, the map should be updated, but it doesn't mean that the people who edit the map don't care. The map is updated frequently whenever someone mentions a new development citing reliable sources.

In 2022, in addition to removing restrictions on abortion pills, the College of Physicians of Quebec removed the abortion guidelines from its website altogether.[18] The abortion guidelines from the College of Physicians and Surgeons of Alberta that I had cited above are no longer in its website either. In addition, one of the two sources cited for the gestational limit in each province added a note in 2022 suggesting that the information there may be outdated due to the increased use of abortion pills. So based on these developments, I agree to change all of Canada on the map to light blue (no gestational limit) or purple (unclear limit), but I'm going to add this discussion also on the talk page of the article on abortion law to see what other users may suggest. Heitordp (留言) 06:21, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

@Heitordp: Apologies if my previous comment had a rude tone, but it's because I agreed with the poster you replied to and disagreed with your response. The map is about gestational limits. It's irrevelvant if a College of Physicians has this or that regulation, because a regulation is not a gestational limit. Colleges of Physicians are only meant to regulate physicians and they cannot set gestational limits, they have no parliamentary legislative powers. The lack of available physicians in this or that province is not the same as gestational limits, so it's wrong to say that Canada does not allow abortion throughout 9 months. The shade of blue used for Canada is wrong, it says Allowed on request, with a gestational limit after the first 17 weeks. That is incorrect. The reality is that there is no gestational limit after the first 17 weeks, it doesn't exist.ADM (留言) 00:41, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

Malta: abortion allowed by danger for woman

Malta should be marked in RED and not in Black. Since 2023 in Malta abortion is allowed, when there is danger for life of the woman.

• Ärzteblatt: Malta billigt Abtreibungsgesetz mit minimalen Lockerungen, June 2023
• Zeit.de: Malta erlaubt eingeschränkt Schwangerschaftsabbrüche

88.70.216.159 17:16, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the news. I updated Malta in the map. Heitordp (留言) 03:30, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

Puerto Rico

Puerto Rico is colored light blue, indicating abortion is legally unrestricted. However, they have a criminal law which prohibits elective abortions entirely. [19]https://reproductiverights.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/pub_fac_abortion_pr.pdf Malcolmmwa (留言) 18:31, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Puerto Rico is colored green, not light blue. Green means that it allows abortion for social reasons. The law of Puerto Rico allows abortion explicitly only for risk to life or health, but the Supreme Court of Puerto Rico expanded the risk to health also to include mental health and social aspects. This is explained in the source that you cited. Heitordp (留言) 11:56, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

My mistake, I asked about the wrong map. I was intending to ask on the talk page for [20], which indicates that abortion is legally unrestricted. I also edited the page for abortion in Puerto Rico to reflect those changes, without contradicting these three articles which say otherwise. 71.219.19.100 15:39, 30 April 2024 (UTC)