File talk:Brasão de Minas Gerais.svg

Possible conflict of current design with text of law

The issue is, the coloured version of the coat of arms is hardly in use, eg. the governor of the state uses a black/white outline., the government the triangle from the flag accompanied with the text "Governo de Minas". I understand, the version from the official government website ( Governo do Estado de Minas Gerais (Símbolos => Brasão) as the current official interpretation of the official CofA and hold it to be in line with applicable laws. I do not deem it my task to interpret Minas Gerais state law beyond the interpretation of the state government - IMHO, this would constitute something too close to "Original Research". If somebody feels, the linked to version on the government website is incorrect, then the case should not be argued within the realm of WP discussions. An enquiry with the governor of the state, who should by convention also be the guardian of the state insignia, would be more suitable. A similar case, eg. is the Flag of the Brazilian state of Paraiba: here the verbatim text of the law prescribes the word NÉGO to be in the red field of the flag. The state government interprets, that after a spelling reform also the historic reference ought to be adjusted, and uses the text on the flag without the accent on the E. Again, I leave the interpretation of the law to the state.

The following legal text is known:

Brasão do estado de Minas Gerais DECRETO Nº 6.493 ¬ DE 5 DE FEVEREIRO DE 1924

DESCRIÇÕES ESTABELECIDAS PARA A LOGOMARCA

No centro o lampião com as picaretas ferramentas usadas na escavação e iluminação dos túneis na extração do ouro nas minas. A estrela de cinco pontas desenhada com dois fios e representando a união, foi retirado do brasão da federação, em seu centro um circulo branco representando a luz do lampião e envolvendo-o junta as picaretas em cruz. Na ponta superior da Estela desce um fio que segura o lampião dividindo-a ao meio, a parte esquerda desta divisão é recoberta na cor vermelha e a direita na cor azul repetindo o procedimento nas outras quatro pontas entre as duas pontas laterais superiores encaixa-se a frase LIBERTAS QUAE SERA TAMEN formando um semicirculo em letra pretas. Abaixo das duas pontas laterais inferiores um faixa em azul escrito ESTADO DE MINAS GERAIS que sobrepõe dois galhos de fumo e café representando a maior economia da época que envolve a estrela em formato circular prendendo os galhos um laço de fita vermelha e nas pontas a data de 15 DE JUNHO DE 1891 (data da promulgação da constituição estadual).

There may or may be not newer laws or edicts with regards to the coat of arms of Minas Gerais. OAlexander (talk) 10:37, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

Flag of the Brazilian state of Paraiba doesn't seems to me a good example. I think that the coat of arms of Brazil illustrate better the situation: the law describe the use of "azul celeste" (sky-blue), but a darker version is also found in official flags/drawings.

About the original research, it's a common practice to drawn the coat of arms based only in its description, specially in European CoAs. This practice also avoid possible copyright violation. From the heraldic point of view, it's not a problem, not even wrong, but may lead to differents CoAs (the one used by the government/institution oficial and the one made by a Commons user).

But this is not the point here. The point is that the alternative CoA is also widly used. We can find the it:

• In the Official press of Minas Gerais
• In the flag-insignia of the State of Minas Gerais

I don't find (unless the the url from the government website) others use of the "full red" coat of arms. This is why I think that the alternative version should be considered the CoA de facto. This version is also closer to the B&W version (available in some sites).

None of these two versions follow exactly the official description (imo, the star should be gyronny like the Brazilian coat of arms -- but in blue and red), but I agree that we should not try to "fix" it. Giro720 (talk) 18:01, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

IMO, what happens here is that the red version was used widely by the Minas Gerais Government (this is true, as far I remember, although I don't have references...) and nowadays, it's been replaced by the colored version. Giro720 (talk) 18:51, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

The most convincing argument seems to me the flickr photo ("taken on November 18, 2010") showing the governor re-appointing an official. In the background three flags are displayed: the flags of MG and Brazil, and obviously the flag of the governor of MG, which by law (Lei Estadual n° 2.793, de 08 de janeiro de 1963: 5.1 Insígnia do Governador) displays "o selo do Estado de Minas Gerais ... referido ... é o aprovado pela Lei № 01, de 14 de setembro de 1891" The item is identical with the version of the brasão here from 2 February 2010.

In terms of argumentation I attribute little importance to the Official press of Minas Gerais website, might as well just use a logo based on some insignia; also, there the tie on the bottom is orange. However, the flag at the governor's office I consider a substantial factor. If there is a consensus to regard the version 2 February 2010 as the official coat of arms, I am happy to upload a new, optimized version.

I have since created and uploaded the Flag of the Governor of Minas Gerais. Regards, OAlexander (talk) 08:17, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

For me ok. Giro720 (talk) 00:02, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

I assume general consensus that the version with the prevailingly white star at the core of the brasão is probably most likely the official brasão of MG. This also includes an assumption that the terms selo and brasào largely mean the same in pt-br. See also [Vexilologia Brasileira (Estado de Minas Gerais). OAlexander (talk) 16:59, 12 August 2011 (UTC)