File talk:Flag of Slovenia.svg

 

Colours

Well the colours are IMHO off.

Slovenia protected at WIPO this symbols:

• Flag [1]
• CoA [2]

This protection occured at 1993-01-15 and was initiated by the Slovenian Government.

I must addmit that have never seen Slovenian symbols as bright as they are represented here.

The files (mentioned above) have in average these colours:

• #080bc0 for blue
• #ef0000 for red
• #f5d800 for yellow (calculated from the Coat of arms)
• #f8db04 for yellow (calculated from the Flag)

Only one of these yellow colours should be used.

When searching through the Internet one might find even darker images, but very few that are bright like version here (at commons).

What should we do about this problem.

Rainman 22:38, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

If I can be honest, I do not wish to change them. The colors that I used in this image came from this website, which is the officially run by the Slovenia Government. Unlike with the other former Yugoslavia flags, we actually have a government website on what colors we should use for the flag. I will check and make sure it is right today. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return fire)} 18:30, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Well I agree, but up to a point. Namely Slovenian Parliament is the only body authorized to make such decisions. [3] Why should be use that governmental website when in praxis that same government uses darker colours and furthermore requested WIPO to sent those darker versions to all of the countries in the world. Those light versions - I have never seen in use in Slovenia, maybe I am wrong, but maybe I am right? What if the latter is the case, who should take that responsability. And look at the other images in the category. -- Rainman 00:25, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Keep in mind the CMYK colors maybe for use on screens only. I looked at the other images; I am not sure where the PNG images get their colors from. Plus, I noticed some of the photographs were edited in photoshop, based on the filenames and data. I haven't toyed around with the second color scheme listed on the website, but I have shown this flag to Slovenian user "Zocky" before and he approved of the image. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return fire)} 01:08, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Well that is one Slovenian who approves, but CMYK are the colours used for print, and RGB for screen. I am downloading Zakon o grbu, zastavi in himni Republike Slovenije ter o slovenski narodni zastavi /ZGZH/ (English translation being: Act on the Coat-of-arms, the Flag and the Anthem of the Republic of Slovenia and on the Flag of the Slovene Nation) from Uradni list Republike Slovenije (Official Gazette of the Republic of Slovenia) it has [4] 4.03 MB - maybe this would help (but chances are that this is black & white). -- Rainman 01:20, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Ok. I checked out the EU Presidency website set up by the Slovene Government and they repeat the same colors I pointed out earlier. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return fire)} 01:25, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Have you noticed that those small CoA and flag were taken from the Slovenian Parliament and other images (that are not shown, PNG, EPS, PDF) are taken from the Office of the Slovenian Government for information (Urad vlade za komuniciranje - even dared to copyright the files). This proves that the information you based the colours on is only the oppinion of the one office - of one governmental branch (+ that is not authorized). WIPO stores the version that has been approved by the entire Government of Slovenia which empowered Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Republic of Slovenia to request from WIPO protection and dissemination of the symbols.[5] This is the file that WIPO sent to the Government when the storage and protection begun. -- Rainman 01:44, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

I noticed, but I am still either going to use the colors that the UKOM or the Slovenia MJU use. That has a color chart I can cite. I do not trust WIPO. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return fire)} 22:49, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

You noticed the small (but scalable) CoA on that UKOM page 12 of their official document. Why haven't you used the RGB they specificy for blue colour? Why do you insist on CMYK? Especially why do you insist on CMYK that do not correspond to that Pantone or RGB. -- Rainman 00:30, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Much of the photographs tell a very different story. And you haven't stated your oppinion on much of the 12 sources I have contributed to this discussion. -- Rainman 19:42, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

CMYK is for printing, RGB is for screen viewing. -- Rainman 19:42, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

I commented already on the sources, so please scroll back. Honestly, I am done discussing this issue with you. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return fire)} 19:49, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Instead of checking the official government websites people keep using random sources... http://www.vlada.si/o_sloveniji/politicni_sistem/drzavni_simboli/ http://www.eu2008.si/includes/Downloads/misc/symbol/sistemPEU-sloAsklop-c.pdf --MateoKatanaCRO (トーク) 13:10, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

Ministry of Administration

Slovenian Ministry of Administration (Ministry of Public Administration is the direct translation of Ministrstvo za javno upravo) issued this [6] handbook.

There is in detail described every aspect of usage of Slovenian National and State Symbols in everyday work of public officials of Slovenia. Form official memorandums to visit cards.

Rainman 02:27, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

It also apears [7] at this brochure of the Government Public Relations and Media Office of Slovenia. -- Rainman 02:36, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Colouring of the Symbol of Presidency of the European Union (generalized) [8] here. -- Rainman 02:53, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Office of the President of the Slovenian Government [9]. -- Rainman 03:01, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

• [10]
• [11]
• [12]

What I notice with the first document you shown me, the CMYK colors of the gold and blue are different from what I cited before. With the blue, the K was lowered from 10 to 0. Same occurred with the gold, except the value lowered was M. I also see Pantone colors (Reflex Blue, Yellow and Pantone 032). I need to pour over the other sources before I wish to see the flag color changed. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return fire)} 03:19, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

The second PDF file repeats the same information at UKOM, which we derive our current colors from. I saw just photos in the last link. Page 12 of [13] this document from the third link uses other Pantone and CMYK colors. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return fire)} 03:24, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

What second PDF - I do not recal that anything should look the same as UKOM drawed. -- Rainman 03:40, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

That Presidency symbol document is only a reference on the Presidency symbol - not CoA nor Flag, but useful to show that those are typical Slovenian colours. Even when this symbol was presented they said that the colours are from the Slovenian Official Symbols. Maybe they meant - resemble that symbols. -- Rainman 03:45, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

On the EU website you linked, they showed a document on how to draw the presidency symbol, including Pantone, RGB, CMYK and other colors. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return fire)} 03:49, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

This is a six months duration symbol, it is a symbol of the Slovenian Presidency over the European Union (2008-01-01 - 2008-06-30). It is not a per se Slovenian official symbol. And why haven't you noticed the CoA at that Presidency symbol presentation listed under the number 13. -- Rainman 03:56, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

What about the page 88 of 167 from manual that I have citted under number 6. -- Rainman 03:53, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Page 88 is what I cited in the discussion starting with "What I notice with the first document you shown me" User:Zscout370 ^{(Return fire)} 04:28, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

And? This is it. Will we make another compromise or use the predominant dark blue colour. -- Rainman 23:37, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

I suggest a compromise, but I need some time to look over the information you posted and think about it. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return fire)} 08:54, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Please look first, then I urge a quick compromise on the usage of CMYK 100-80-0-10 which gives #002EE6 for blue. Using that CMYK would be a compromise between UKOM and Ministry of Administration. It would bring us to a real basis for a real compromise. -- Rainman 00:39, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

RGB is what we are looking for not CMYK

Act on the Coat-of-arms, the Flag and the Anthem of the Republic of Slovenia and on the Flag of the Slovene Nation stipulated only the SCOTDIC ® Code 777 - International Color Codification System (2034) with folowing values:

• white N-1 N95
• dark blue N-46 N722509
• red N-23 No74014
• golden yellow N-6 N197512

That act (better translation: law) does not specificy CMYK nor RGB.

In a Manual titled Overall Standards of the State Administration published in 2005. by the Slovenian Ministry of Public Administration, these standards appear:

• C100 M80 Y0 K0 for dark blue
• C0 M100 Y100 K0 for red
• C0 M0 Y100 K0 for yellow (per law golden yellow)
• C0 M0 Y0 K0 for white

Publication Album des Pavillons gives these definitions:

• Blue: Pantone 293 c / CMYK 100-65-0-0
• Red: Pantone 199 c / CMYK 0-100-65-0
• Yellow: Pantone 116 c / CMYK 0-10-95-0

Govt. Communication Office (former Govt. Public Relations and Media Office) suggest this schematic:

• Blue C100 M60 Y0 K10
• Red C0 M100 Y100 K0
• Yellow C0 M10 Y100 K0
• White C0 M0 Y0 K0

RGB that I suggested from WIPO are way more correct than those suggested by UKOM. -- Rainman 19:10, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Parliament is more important than Government, Government more important than Ministry and Ministry is more important that a govt. office. -- Rainman 19:13, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't use WIPO for my color sources. I never dealt with WIPO much, but I generally like to have a page where it says X, instead of just trying to pick a graphic color and see how it goes. As for "Album," I am not sure where they get their colors from. Since I do not own the actual book, I cannot say much. They sometimes take a guess at colors and I found them wrong at times. If there is a SCOTDIC chart I can use, then that would be better. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return fire)} 08:58, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Repeated question

And why haven't you noticed/commented the CoA at that Presidency symbol presentation listed under the number 13. It is (the small CoA in the heading) exactly the kind of a dark blue as the symbol. -- Rainman 19:29, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

The Presidency symbol and the small but very much scalable CoA of the same colours to that of the Presidency symbol has been made by the same team - UKOM. But; what is the main difference between the UKOM webpage on Slovenian Symbols and the UKOM made Presidency symbol? The difference is that the Presidency symbol has been signed and sealed by the Director of that Office - Gregor Krajc, and that we have even a date of the file 2007-11-27, time 21:10:17. File has been saved as PDF by Robert Kuhar. -- Rainman 23:33, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Ok! More time is needed, I understand, but what about this question. -- Rainman 01:26, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Hmm...I am thinking we either use the UKOM colors (which we have now) or the colors from Slovenian Ministry of Administration. The difference of the shades is little, but we can cite those pages to say what values they are. I am going to draw up a few things. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return fire)} 03:22, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Colors from Slovenian Ministry of Administration are up now. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return fire)} 03:31, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Why not WIPO, because the entire Government of Slovenia requested that those files were put there here is the document. -- Rainman 01:14, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Because WIPO doesn't have a exact color code I can cite and use. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return fire)} 07:08, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Have you seen the official WIPO document in which clearly writes that the Government of Slovenia requested those colours (sources under [1] and [2] to be stored and used by the international community. Government of Slovenia is bigger that one ministry. -- Rainman 17:27, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

I seen it and I will not use the image from WIPO. Not only it doesn't say what they used for their colors, but also the state arms is drawn wrong on the flag. I am happy with the current colors now. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return fire)} 19:40, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Slightly broader red edge of the shield is a minor and unsignificant error, but why not using the RGB that was used for the Presidency symbol (it has ample sources in various colour standards), it is a signed and sealed document (so who would get hurt - nobody). For that matter why not use CMYK 100-80-0-10 which gives #002EE6 for blue. Using that CMYK would be a compromise between UKOM and Ministry of Administration. It would bring us to a real basis for a real compromise. -- Rainman 22:04, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

---

Why not the colours used for the Presidency symbol, the CoA appears in the heading of the presentation of that symbol. You haven't answered that, very important, question.

I still think that colours should be like that Presidency symbol at page 12 ascertain.

Or in the worst case, ordinary

• #0000FF
• #FF0000
• #FFFF00

would be better than now.

Rainman 21:45, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

How did you calculate

I honestly don't know how you managed to calculate #0033FF from CMYK 100-80-0-0 when UKOM calculated R15 G55 B140 from that same CMYK.

Presidency symbol has (to be checked first):

• #0f378c dark blue
• #e62319 red
• #fad214 gold yellow

which is most close to that average #080bc0 of mine.

Rainman 00:44, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

I used Inkscape's CMYK color fill. Inkscape has either RGB, CMYK, and a few other ways to color the flags. I used CMYK, since that seems to the standard set used on the Slovenian documents and websites. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return fire)} 07:08, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Well since CMYK is not official, nor the RGB why not RGB as calculated by UKOM. The only official standard set is SCOTDIC. -- Rainman 17:24, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

CMYK is for printing and RGB for computer screens. -- Rainman 17:28, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

How do you explain the difference. -- Rainman 22:00, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Colour schematic

Dark blue

• Pantone Reflex Blue C / Pantone Blue 072 U
• CMYK 100-80-0-0
• R15 G55 B140
• RAL 5005
• 3M Scotchcal 30-87 or 50-87

Yellow

• Pantone 116 C / Pantone 115 U
• CMYK 0-20-100-0
• R250 G210 B20
• RAL 1018
• 3M Scotchcal 30-270 or 50-27

Red

• Pantone Warm Red C/U
• CMYK 0-95-100-0
• R230 G35 B25
• RAL 3020
• 3M Scotchcal 30-4780 or 50-475

Rainman 19:29, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

CMYK is used for printing purposes. -- Rainman 02:26, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Colours used at commons vs colours used by UKOM

Here used:

• #005BE6
• #FF0000
• #FFE600

Are not what UKOM uses at the site you used as a source [14]

They use:

• #0000FF
• #FF0000
• #FFFF00

Rainman 00:30, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

What I did with the UKOM image is that I took the EPS file, then changed it to the CMYK colors they mentioned below, then put it on here. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return fire)} 08:53, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Blue on the coat of arms now doesn't match the blue on the flag. --Avala 18:40, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

The compromise colours are now on display. Please wait until User:Klemen Kocjancic (admin at commons) answers. -- Rainman 22:58, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

One comment about all this. I have drawn the PDF image for UKOM because the shapes were plain wrong before (drawn approximately with CorelDraw; the current shapes on UKOM should now be at least mathematically correct). I first used CMYK colors in PDF, but they came out a bit weird (or maybe the program I used didn't support CMYK back in 2005), so I took #00F, #F00 and #FF0 simply because I had no idea which colors were the right ones. The flag on UKOM should be taken as a reference for the shape, not for the colors, just in case that you wonder where the wrong colors come from.

In my opinion the blue on current image is way too bright. Any other proposal would be much better. --Mojca Miklavec (talk) 17:36, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

The colors are fine. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return fire)} 01:44, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

The current colours (especially the red tone) seem oversaturated compared to real fabric colour because CMYK is used essentially for printing, not monitor use. You can see this by comparing shades taken from a photo of a real flag, such as this. One of the links gives straight RGB values to use, not in the flag but in a symbol which has colours used in the flag. These values produce a less saturated image. For example, FF0000 as red is too bright on most monitors to be even possible to show like that on a flag made of fabric. After all, the image shown here is supposed to depict a real flag, it is not a real flag in itself. I agree that the blue tone derived from the RBG values seems a bit dark but there have been other (somewhat ignored) opinions here that the current blue is too light. At least I'd do the RGB conversion from the current CMYK values in sRGB colour space which also results in less saturated colours, at least in Photoshop. –Vzb83 (talk) 13:48, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

This official guide has Pantone recommendations among the usual CMYK and SCOTDIC values: Reflex Blue, Red 032 and Yellow. There's also an image of the flag which is similar to but less saturated than the flag converted from the Pantone values. The Pantone colours are also slightly brighter than the RGB values from the link stated above. I'm not really telling anything new here, and since there's only one person supporting the current colours, I'll take the liberty of changing the colours to the officially recommended Pantone shades. Hopefully at least the majority of people would be happy with them. –Vzb83 (talk) 17:16, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

A possible compromise would be to use the given CMYK values and convert them to RGB in Adobe RGB colour space which is designed for working between RGB and CMYK colour models and would probably produce the most optimal result. CMYK has a smaller gamut than RGB because of limitations in printing and therefore fully bright colours in RGB will look brighter than fully bright colours in CMYK, when compared on their normal usage (monitor and print). That's why converting from CMYK to RGB using the simplest mathematical conversion (for example CMYK 0,100,100,0 to RGB 255,0,0) results in changed colours. –Vzb83 (talk) 13:26, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

The programs that we use to make the SVg images, such as Inkscape, already has CMYK values that we can use, then converts it automatically to RGb for us to use. The red seems fine, but the major problem with this specific image that people had in the past was the blue. I know the UKOM have a GIF flag that we can use the colors from, so that could be another option. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return fire)} 15:53, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

As I already wrote, using the normal CMYK to RGB conversion without taking into account the different gamut will usually result in altered colours. RGB 255,0,0 is off the CMYK gamut so if we take the optically corresponding tone in RGB it will be less bright. This is what we should do if we want to stick with the CMYK colour model, or then use the RGB or Pantone values given in the links above. –Vzb83 (talk) 16:13, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

OK, so how about we use the colors from this file from the UKOM? User:Zscout370 ^{(Return fire)} 04:32, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

I can't see the reason why we should pick colours from an image when we already have official values in RGB, CMYK and Pantone that we can use to create our own image. Besides, official Slovenian sources provide more than one image of their flag which differ in colours (look at the PDF file). In a readily made image it's difficult to say whether it was designed to look right on a monitor, in 256-colour web-safe use, on print or in anywhere. This is not an argument but in my opinion Pantone-based conversions have produced the most natural-looking flags, as with the French flag. Unlike in CMYK conversion, Pantone has defined RGB values that on a monitor will be a close match with their tones. CMYK is more difficult because of the colour space differences I've mentioned. I'm not sure why you have an urge to keep the oversaturated tones, I assume your monitor is calibrated, so maybe we just have a different view on what looks good. At least I think I've argumented my point as well as I can. Maybe in some cases we can make a separate version of a flag with bright CMYK converted colours for printer use, but I think the 'main' file should be for monitor viewing. –Vzb83 (talk) 13:26, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

I did a test image with four different possibilities for the colours: CMYK to RGB in sRGB space, the same in Adobe RGB, the same with no colour space and Pantone to RGB in sRGB space. Then I compared them all with this photo by picking colours from various points of the flag. I think the CMYK conversion in sRGB space provided the best results, although the blue was a bit different when compared to any candidate. The conversion in sRGB produced these values: red #ed1c24, blue #005da4 and yellow #ffdd00. The red is slightly darker than currently and there's a bigger difference with the blue tone. I think it also looks good. I can send you the picture if you like. –Vzb83 (talk) 13:46, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Sure, send the photo. When I do the flag images, I don't really use Adobe RGB or anything along those lines at all. Now, if I can get my hands on that (or unless it is already present in photoshop), I could try it out. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return fire)} 15:48, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

I'll use for now the CMYK to RGB conversion done in sRGB. –Vzb83 (talk) 11:20, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Ok. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return fire)} 21:43, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

If I read correctly the agreed compromise colours are:

1. 005da4ff for blue
2. ed1c24ff for red
3. ffdd00ff for yellow

Bugoslav (talk) 00:46, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Compromise (regarding the colours only)

My proposal (see descr.)

As before

Current file

My proposal (see descr. & discuss.)

New

Interesting source at UN: http://www.un.int/slovenia/insignia.html which were made by Andrej Benedejčič.

The latest booklet, "Facts about Slovenia", 3rd edition, published by the Government Communication Office, Ljubljana, January 2008. English version also depict darker blue colour of the CoA.

Type in Slovenian flag as the search words in http://pro.corbis.com/search/searchFrame.aspx or directly at http://pro.corbis.com/ There you are able to see that Slovenian flag looks much, much different than what we have compromised about.

Rainman 20:51, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

It's fine the way it is now. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return fire)} 23:12, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

It is not fine. Without any comment on the sources claiming something is just fine. Strange. -- Rainman 02:55, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

The color choices are fine, I looked at the sources. We been thru this before, we chose the colors and they stuck. I want this debate to die, so leave it be. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return fire)} 07:10, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Bordered version

Would it be possible for anyone to produce a bordered version of this flag (the civil ensign) with borders like the state flag: ?

new Coat of Arms

I will upload the next days (perhaps, today?) a new coat of arms constructed from URL http://flagspot.net/images/s/si').gif. Hopefully the geometrics are then correct, but they should be far better than now. The colors I will simply take form the current Coat of Arms. If you had a textual description of the official construction sheet, I would highly interested to see it. Whether I have interpreted the graphical sheet correctly. :) Achim1999 (talk) 19:05, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

See File:Grb Republike Slovenije - geometrijsko pravilo.GIF (including the translation in the Information template). --Eleassar ^(t/p) 07:50, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

I'm not quiet sure, but I think I already had seen a similar construction sheet -- maybe even exactly this when interpretating my "Slovenia sheets". But the problem is: it is not uniquely how to make the geometric construction from this original and official designer sheet! Thus I (or any serious worker) need a precise and uniquely construction description. And the worst point generally: I effectively have withdrawn for undefinite time from wikipedia article editing because of too many (incompetent) cooks are trying to make the meal. Regards, Achim (2001:638:504:C00E:F42E:B9BB:4AE0:C561 12:51, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

Color problems.

As is the flag of Indonesia and Taiwan, there's too many shades that have been disputed. Feel free to discuss. ---FreshCorp619 (トーク) 15:02, 6 September 2018 (UTC)

— Preceding unsigned comment added by FreshCorp619 (talk • contribs) 16:28, 7 September 2018 (UTC)

Some colors specified here. – Illegitimate Barrister (talk • contribs), 00:25, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

After being silent for a while, the debate over color has recently begun again. So I resumed the discussion and would appreciate it if you could actively participate. --Tcfc2349 (トーク) 13:27, 7 February 2020 (UTC)

Colors as of May 2022

The current colors are from the official vector from the Slovene government website. Simply converting CMYK (which is mainly used for print) to RGB is not very precise. We already have used the given official vector for the flag of Montenegro even though the same source also gives CMYK values. Kamran.nef (トーク) 22:47, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

 同意--起司狗 (トーク) 17:51, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

Upload request

{{Edit request}} Please replace the file with File:Flag of Slovenia (fixed).svg which has a corrected coat of arms, see File talk:Coat of arms of Slovenia.svg. Mike Rohsopht (トーク) 17:25, 21 July 2022 (UTC)

 完了 in Special:Diff/680536327. --TKsdik8900 (トーク) 01:03, 6 August 2022 (UTC)