File talk:Coat of arms of the Republic of Vietnam (1967–1975).svg

Dragon skin's colour

• Deepskyblue, not green. (2405:4802:29F:1EC0:B82D:EB15:4B58:2065 13:39, 1 July 2021 (UTC))
  • @Musée Annam: , please provide sources. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 15:47, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
• Why do the dragons' colors keep switching between blue and green?! Figure out which color is correct and stick with it. FlyDragon792 03:11, 13 September 2021 (UTC)
• It seems to be blue, as shown in this photo (edit: it's a presidential standard, not exactly coat of arms). Considering how it was solemnly kept and displayed at a public ceremony, I think this could be a relic, or at least tried to be authentic to the original design. Greenknight dv (トーク) 00:57, 24 October 2021 (UTC)
  • @Greenknight dv: , I very much agree with this. Musée Annam was 100% (one-hundred percent) correct and all written sources are either by Westerners (where green dragons are more common) or by Vietnamese echoing those Westerners. Generally speaking Chinese dragons associated with power tend to be based on the Thanh Long (青龍, "Azure Dragon"). Note that there are some State of Việt-Nam period imperial standards of the Chief of State Bảo Đại that have green dragons, but I can't remember ever having seen a pair of green dragons on South Vietnamese flags in other than modern recreations. I would say that "when in doubt use Occam's razor" which means taking the path that makes the least assumptions, in other words the one where there is most evidence for. As there are plenty of examples (photographs) of a pair of blue Chinese Dragons and none from the Second (2nd) Republic period displaying green Chinese Dragons I would say that it's safe to say that the Chinese Dragons are in fact supposed to be blue. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 11:51, 19 January 2022 (UTC)

The header of a 1974 document sent by President of South Vietnam.

• @Sodacan: , the Chinese Dragons are blue, please make it look more the flag that Greenknight Đại Việt showed above. Even the "alternative blue" colour from the edit war isn't the correct shade of blue, it's the same blue as the Chinese dragon on the flag of the Manchu Qing Dynasty. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 18:58, 13 July 2022 (UTC)
• @Donald Trung: Just an opinion but this looks more like a watermark version with blue ink. I can of course change the blue dragon to this blue, but what about the shield, must it be monochrome too? --Sodacan (トーク) 13:00, 9 August 2022 (UTC)
  • Sodacan, this is indeed a print, I simply haven't seen any contemporary depictions of the dragons in green, only later depictions. In the Graphic Lab someone based an alternative version based on the banner on display at an event. I think that only the scales of the dragons should be changed to this shade of blue. -- Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 20:07, 9 August 2022 (UTC)
    • @Donald Trung: , Can you find me a contemporary version of the coat of arms with the blue dragons? --Sodacan (トーク) 14:13, 11 August 2022 (UTC)
      • Sodacan, this isn't particularly new information. But this image appears to be a preserved South Vietnamese presidential with two (2) blue Chinese dragons. The issue with this is that it's not a photograph taken before 1975, but all images of surviving depictions show them as blue. I actually have a harder time finding green Chinese dragons on this coat of arms that aren't Microsoft Paint-made drawings on blogs or vague unreferenced mentions. There simply is less evidence to support that they were green rather than blue. That's my issue, almost every time a coloured version of them appear they always seem to be some form of grayish blue. -- Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 16:57, 11 August 2022 (UTC)
        • @Donald Trung: , I agree with you that we should get the colouring right (and I have no issue in changing it). However I would like to ask that you help me and find some contemporary first hand sources about the coat of arms (so we have definitive proof). I am not able to access Vietnamese language sources (and I couldn't find anything in English). The best evidence for the colours would be a full description of the coat of arms itself, possibly in a decree or law. This is important as we want to be as accurate as possible. We need sources. My concerns as someone familiar with heraldry and vexillology are that coat of arms and flags don't always share the same colouring instructions. A coat of arms can contain many colours; East Asian dragons are often depicted with many colours. Flags due to costs and visibleness sometimes have less colour details in them. In spite of these concerns, if you insist I will change the colour to those you requested based on the photos of the flag you linked. --Sodacan (トーク) 20:41, 11 August 2022 (UTC)
          • Sodacan, I fully understand your skepticism and share it. I will ping you again once I've found more evidence. My only issue with the current version is simply that I have found less evidence for the Chinese dragons being green than I have for the Chinese dragons being blue, that's it. But with the State of Vietnam the coats of arms were always blue while the flags usually depicted green Chinese dragons (at least the flags of the Chief of State), so I fully understand that flags can use a different colour than coats of arms. I will try to look for more official laws, though an issue is also that the words for "blue" and "green" could be the same. -- Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 20:47, 11 August 2022 (UTC)
            • @Donald Trung: , Thank you, let's settle this permanently. --Sodacan (トーク) 20:51, 11 August 2022 (UTC)

              Okay, how about uploading alternate green? The blue one should be the main one. Baokhang48812002 (トーク) 08:06, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

Additional sources

• @Donald Trung: and others who are interested. I have been researching and found some coloured versions of the coat of arms.

1. Dragons are blue and gold (Colour photo with arms on the podium of Nguyễn Văn Thiệu, 1968).
2. Dragons are gold (Colour photo with arms on the podium of Nguyễn Văn Thiệu, 1968).
3. Dragons are gold (Colour photo with arms on the podium of Nguyễn Văn Thiệu, 1972).
4. Dragons are gold (Colour photo with arms on the podium of Nguyễn Văn Thiệu, 1973?).
5. Dragons are blue and gold (a photo of a vintage brass seal).
6. Dragons are blue and gold (a photo of vintage lighter called: Dupont "Ngo Dinh Diem").
7. Also golden? (On a modern day podium seal).

• Sources support blue (but none for green) and plenty for gold. My own conclusion based on this research is to make the dragons blue and gold similar to my original version, with an all blue dragon as the variant. --Sodacan (トーク) 13:27, 29 August 2022 (UTC)
  • @Sodacan: , sounds like a great idea! --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 13:42, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

  apologies for being dumb and an outsider looking in, but why an all blue variant and not an all gold one? NorthTension (トーク) 15:04, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

  wait disregard im dumb lmao NorthTension (トーク) 15:05, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

Blazon

Can you tell me the blazon of the achievement of arms of South Vietnam? Baokhang48812002 (トーク) 08:05, 5 September 2022 (UTC)