File talk:Interview Aaron Saxton part 1 of 7.ogv

 

Transcript

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Carmel: So, can you give us a brief history? Of what you experienced in Scientology?

Aaron: What happened is uh - I'm 35, I was born in 1974 - and my parents were in Scientology. So I actually did a couple of courses, but really wasn't involved with Scientology all that much until I was 15. And, when I turned 15, I actually joined on staff, and became a member of the Sea Organisation, just after my 15th birthday.
Carmel: Yep.
Aaron: And I stayed there until I was 21, so I did 6 years for them, and then after that I was involved in Scientology again for another year and a half before I finally left them for good. And I haven't been involved since then.

Carmel: So you were in the Sea Org from when you were 15 until you were 22 or something.
Aaron: That's correct, yes.

Carmel: So how did that affect you as a young man? I mean, you missed out those, some of those prime years there.

Aaron: It was hard, because I didn't know what I was missing until afterwards. I, how I dealt with life in there was difficult, because.. I mean as a young man I was trying to, trying to grow, I was trying to go out and find different likes and dislikes. And all of that was crushed, because the only liking you could have was for the purpose of the Sea Org; the only liking you could have was for the music produced by Golden Era Productions, the only books you could read were from L Ron Hubbard, you know, you couldn't go off and read this or that, you couldn't listen to radio, you couldn't read the newspapers, you couldn't buy magazines, you know, you couldn't even watch TV.
Carmel: Yep.
Aaron: So your whole life was that, and you know as a young man I wanted to, you know, I was growing, you know? I was going through puberty!
Carmel: Yep.
Aaron: And... you wouldn't think it was wrong to want to, to love another human being, you wouldn't think it was wrong to show emotion or liking towards a woman.
Carmel: Yep.
Aaron: And the moment you do that in there, you're punished! You know, I wanted to experience sex, I wanted to touch a female body. But the moment I did it, I'm dragged into this office by these men that tell you you're an ape! You're an ape for masturbating, you're evil for even having considered the idea of, of, of, of touching this woman outside of marriage, you know? And, you know, I look around me and see the people that are married in this place, and they don't even get to see their wives, so why would I want that? I just wanted to know what it was like to kiss a woman, and that's punishable. And then, you know, and I'm forced onto the decks, I'm made to clean and do hard labour to do amends, to repent for it, and I'm held in this office and told read this, this shows that, you know, if you think about ejaculation, if you think about touching a woman, you're an ape, you're not in control of your emotions.
Carmel: Yep.
Aaron: I mean, I'm a young man, I'm hard-wired! This is what, this is what young men, young women do! And you're left there with a choice: how do I handle this? How do I resolve not wanting to, to express this desire? So you come up with a solution.
Carmel: Yep.
Aaron: And the solution was horrible: I have to stop wanting sex. I have to stop it because, and then when you try to stop wanting it, they take you into an interrogation and the thought of wanting to have sex - well, the thought leads to the action, so therefore don't even have the thought!
Carmel: Right.
Aaron: So how do you deal with this, how does your mind cope? Well I, I started to comprehend things, I'd get an erection, and I'd think of something like cockroaches, or a horror film, or vampires or anything, something that, uurgh, would make me go like that, so that I could turn it off and let my erection go down. I wore tight pants, tight underwear so that it would crush and cut off the blood there, so that it couldn't act, so that it couldn't do what it was supposed to do, which was grow and erect and make me go off and want to have hormones.
Carmel: Yep.
Aaron: You know, anything that turned that on, I wanted to turn it off.
Carmel: Yep.
Aaron: And, this goes on and on and on. And eventually your mind identifies sex with real pain, because the action results in such pain in the Sea Organisation, in Scientology management, it results in such punishment, that it is evil for you to do this.
Carmel: Yeah.
Aaron: This is a fundamental dynamic and right of a human being and a desire and, you know, it's gone, it's crushed, and while everyone else out there was going through that through their great teenage years and experiencing and finding out true love, I was, I was finding out what it was like to be punished for the thought of it.

Carmel: Yeah. So after you left the Sea Org, say, after you were 22, how did that affect you then? I mean, how did you cope with that after that?

Aaron: Can you imagine, I'd been doing that for so long - having these images in my mind to turn me off from having sex - that when it actually came time to be with a woman, properly, outside the Church confounds, and have sex -
Carmel: Yep.
Aaron: - I had to have the lights off. Not, not for some arousal reason. I had to have the lights off because I had to close my eyes and now I had to have those images in my mind, those horrible images, to have sex because my body over the last 6 years got used to the idea of having the erection and having these mental images of terror and ugly, disgusting things. And the body got, overrode it and said right, I'll have an erection now when you have these ideas. So when I'm with this woman, I'm not thinking about the woman, I'm not even thinking about other women, I'm thinking about anything else other than sex so that I can now have sex! And if, if you want to talk about dysfunctional, this doesn't even being to comprehend it. I felt sorry for my wife that I had in Melbourne. I felt sorry for her because she didn't understand why sex was so hard for us, why emotionally, why touching, why the speaking of the word 'love' was just a foreign idea to me.
Carmel: Yep.
Aaron: You know? Touching, that's - you know, my mind goes "Heavy petting, don't do it!" My mind just jumps to this, you know? "Don't touch in public."
Aaron: And in private, don't do anything. Wait till you go to the bedroom only.
Carmel: Yep.
Aaron: We're talking about a real trial for you mind.

Carmel: Yep. Dear oh dear! Uhm, can you describe what you think that you became, or how you became as a Sea Org member? You've spoken to me before about, uhm, yeah, about the fact you feel like that wasn't you and now you're trying to find you back.

Aaron: I didn't know what to do to, to survive, to feel good, I had to do something that resulted in happiness. And, when you're in an environment that only rewards you, only rewards you when you've done what is needed to be done, as opposed to what you think should be done or what is right, after years of that you decide "I'm going to do what I need to in order to get an applaud, I'm going to do what I need to in order to sit down and be in peace." And often those things unfortunately meant, in my position there in the Church, being always in the Communications Office, always in charge of ethics and morality issues for staff, with such a heavy burden on punishment and making people do what I wanted to do, that's where I got my enjoyment from. I didn't, I... I didn't have friendships like that! My friend could be a friend the next day and then after the next day I'd be penalising them, out of the job, so I had to learn that you didn't get happiness from friendships. And relationships were a no-no. Where do you get happiness from? Enjoying what you must do. And that's where I got my happiness from. Right or wrong had nothing to do with it, I didn't even - those two words did not come into the equation.
Carmel: Right.
Aaron: And unfortunately for the human beings around me, that were very much not treated like human beings, they suffered because of a result of that, because they were dealing with a man here that looked at them like this. And now here I am as an adult, outside of that, and I'm looking around at people. They're no longer assets, they're no longer parts of a machine, they demand respect, they want to be treated like a living thing. I'm still trying to get there! I'm sorry, but for 6 years of my life, non-stop, every day: assets, they're parts of a machine, I must make them work.

Carmel: So you didn't consider, you didn't view them as people, with feelings or?

Aaron: No. Well, you can't... no! Because even the concept of dealing with their feelings or "Am I going to ignore their emotions" didn't even come into the equation any more! What has that got to do with what I've got to do for the Church? I am sorry, I have got to get this product. I have got to get this done. Their consequence of how they felt about it can't be part of the equation, if, and it can't be part of my equation. It got to a point where I didn't lose sleep. If I asked this person to have an abortion, I didn't lose sleep, I didn't even think twice after it. My only consideration was "Phew, god! I don't have to fill that post again with another person because they're going to abort." Or, if they did decide that they were going to have the baby, I was going "Christ! I have to hire someone to replace them!" There was no joy, there was no celebration, there was -

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