File talk:State- and union territory-level parties.svg

Other political parties

Is

 

1. dd5858

a good choice? IMHO too close to the BJP colour. Incnis Mrsi (talk) 08:57, 26 May 2019 (UTC)

I agree; however, I don't see an easy way out for this. Changing the color in the image is the easy part. This legend description is used in many pages - we would need to update the color in all those places. -Cibu (talk) 09:51, 18 January 2020 (UTC)

NDA in Tamil Nadu.

@Cibu, Selva15469, and RaviC: AIADMK which is part of NDA is in power of TN. Correction needed in map. Imtiaz ahmed rifat (talk) 17:35, 23 December 2019 (UTC)

In 2016 Tamil Nadu legislative election, the alliance between BJP and AIADMK didn't materialise. They both contested in all seats. Refer: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Tamil_Nadu_Legislative_Assembly_election

-Cibu (talk) 09:48, 18 January 2020 (UTC)

Colour in description

Colour in the Description does not match with the present map. Should be updated immediately. Dey subrata (talk) 16:11, 24 December 2019 (UTC)

Done -Cibu (talk) 09:52, 18 January 2020 (UTC)

Saffron Yashodhan Ganu (talk) 14:31, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

Use pink, green respectively for trs, aitmc Proudlyindian1991 (talk) 13:18, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

Use Aqua in Tamil Nadu. Anudip Ghosh (talk) 04:44, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

Madhya Pradesh

Please change the colour of Madhya Pradesh to saffron in the map as it's a BJP ruled state now. Arjunuws (talk) 07:12, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

Tamil Nadu is in wrong color

@फ़िलप्रो: The description in your recent update states "DMK is part of SPA, which is TN version of UPA. DMK has Congress as junior coalition partner", which is false. Colors are given based on which party(ies) is in the government, not based on partisan alliances. The DMK government in TN is purely DMK, with an absolute majority. Congress is not part of the government, as in the cases of Maharashtra or Jharkhand. Please fix this. Until fixed, I'll have this image on List of current Indian Chief Ministers removed. Feel free to restore it when fixed. Thank You. BawinV (talk) 09:52, 7 May 2021 (UTC)

That is correct. The corresponding revision has been restored. Nirinsanity (talk) 08:08, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

@Naren aviation: Please respond on this talk page here as this is the image in question and everyone concerned can partipicate in the discussion. As for the response to your comment, you may refer to the article, Coalition government. "A coalition government is a form of government in which political parties cooperate to form a government. The usual reason for such an arrangement is that no single party has achieved an absolute majority after an election". Firstly, there is no necessity for any kind of cooperation here among political parties. Second, the DMK achieved an absolute majority in the 2021 election. That's two points that go against the definition of a coalition government. If this map was about political alliances, then you'd be totally right, but it's about coalition governments. Nirinsanity (talk) 14:05, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

BJP never had any minister in the OPS cabinet, yet you guys put them as an NDA ally for the last few years. And why you guys still showing the saffron color in Sikkim and Mizoram even though BJP doesn't have any participation in these state's cabinets?. TheWikiholic (talk) 11:27, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

There is no "you guys" here. I myself was only recently made aware of this map's existence. If you need something in the map changed, you should add a request on this talk page, ask another user to make the change, or if you can do it, make it yourself. I will try to make the changes you have suggested, in some time. Nirinsanity (talk) 13:30, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

Nirinsanity , @फ़िलप्रो:  :- You two state the fact that DMK does not need INC to form a government so it's not a coalition. OK. But in that scenario why do, Sikkim comes to a coalition when the ruling party can form a govt on[] its own. Why does Mizoram come under the BJP coalition when Mizo National Front can form a govt on its own. There are lots of govt in India where the ruling party does not require other parties to form a coalition, cause they have their own majority. But they still come under the coalition because INC or BJP alliance have them in it. That's why even TN needs to come under the coalition with INC. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Naren aviation (talk • contribs) 08:08, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

@Naren aviation: : Your first two questions are valid, I will try to make those changes to Sikkim and Mizoram in a while. Please refer to the article I'd already linked (Coalition government), and tell me where I am mistaken. Nirinsanity (talk) 10:27, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

Nirinsanity, yes, you are right. A coalition is for a government where one party does not have a single majority. But here you can even look at other wiki articles like BJP, INC, UPA, NDA, and others it states that INC or BJP{ as a junior party. So since INC is a junior party in TN it will come light blue, in addition, keep Mizoram and Sikkim as it is. This way has been run since the inception of the image, even with my old account. So that's why. I will talk with CptViraj to get my access back. In addition that's how all the articles with politics considers too. Thank You Regards (talk) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Naren aviation (talk • contribs) 16:43, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

@Naren aviation: : If there is incorrect information on those articles that you've listed, then please feel free to correct those articles as well. I will also put my efforts where I can. But that shouldn't be an excuse to leave incorrect information standing on Wikipedia/Wikimedia. The map being inaccurate since its inception isn't an excuse either. If you can point me to politics-related articles other than Indian politics that also follow these inaccurate notions of alliances/coalitions, I will take a look and learn what I can. Nirinsanity (talk) 11:45, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

Nirinsanity , @फ़िलप्रो:  :- Yes indeed. Whenever there are mistakes in articles let's edit them out. But coming in regards to this picture. It states that if it is in either a coalition with INC or has INC as a junior partner, then it will be in light blue. And since INC is the junior partner in the state, it should be light blue. Naren Aviation (talk) 12:19, 26 May 2021 (IST) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Naren aviation (talk • contribs) 06:50, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

@Naren aviation: I thought we agreed that neither is the INC is in a coalition, nor is it a junior partner in the Tamil Nadu government. They have no power in the TN government. The 18 INC MLAs have the same level as power as the 66 AIADMK MLAs or the 4 BJP MLAs. Hence, none of them need any sort of representation with regard to the color of the state. Nirinsanity (talk) 07:44, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

Nirinsanity , Actually, INC is DMK's junior partner, that's why I have been insisting on changing it to light blue. DMK receives support from INC, VCK, CPI, and CPI(M) MLA in passing bills and passing legislatures. INC to DMK in Tamil Nadu is just like what JD(U) is to BJP in Lok Sabha. A party that's their junior partner and votes with them in the vote of confidence (if it happens), new bills and etc. Regards Naren Aviation

@Naren aviation: The support of INC, VCK, CPI, and CPI(M) makes no difference in the final output. Even if say there was some disagreement between the parties tomorrow and all of the INC MLAs voted against a bill that the DMK brought up, the Tamil Nadu government can still pass the bill since the DMK has an absolute majority. Nirinsanity (talk) 09:05, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

Nirinsanity , Yes, it doesn't but INC, VCK, and CPI, CPIM MLA all vote with DMK. That's why DMK party whip also manages and is the whip for these parties too. And untill INC decides to withdraw support it will be a iNC as junior partner. Thank You Naren Aviation— Preceding unsigned comment added by Naren aviation (talk • contribs) 08:32, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

@Naren aviation: Can you point me to any article that says the DMK party whip also acts as the whip for the other parties? Or any article that specifically says that the whip of one party can act as the whip of another party? Nirinsanity (talk) 09:40, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

Nirinsanity , That's the basic of any alliance. Every alliance will have a whip from the party that has the most seats or the party where the pm/cm comes from. And in addition I want to state that we need to come to an conclusion quick as we cannot go back and forth for months. Regards Naren Aviation

@Naren aviation: If it's that basic, please share an article or official document to verify your claims. I'd like to to see an article that says that the whip of one party can act as the whip of another party in a legislature. We could've concluded long back, if you'd just substantiated your claims with credible evidence. Nirinsanity (talk) 11:39, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

Nirinsanity , https://www.thenewsminute.com/article/kk-shailaja-dropped-pinarayi-s-new-cabinet-be-party-whip-149055 See. You have misunderstood what I meant. With the largest party/LoS party/party with CM will have the whip. And the whip will go around making sure all the MLA vote with them and will coordinate with other parties from the alliance. In addition, if it's fine with you, I will revert the pic back to the one where TN is in light blue. This is cause a state should be in light color if it satisfies one of the 2 options - A) the party is in a coalition with INC/BJP B) INC/BJP is a junior party, and if seat-sharing talks were also held.

This is why I am planning to revert it back. Yes DMK does not need INC, VCK, CPI, and CPI(M) to pass bills. But these parties still pass because they are part of SPA. It's just like how NDA works. BJP does not require other parties that are part of NDA like JD(U) and others top pass bills in Lok Sabha (they require in Rajya Sabha tho). But still, the parties vote based on how BJP votes. The same situation is going in multiple states in India. Take Sikkim for example. SKM does not require BJP. But BJP still votes with them that is exactly why it's in light saffron. The way these works was started since its inception in 2018 Where if a party has INC/BJP as junior it will automatically come as light. This happened with many states on the way and it will continue. That's also how the map works to check if it's a coalition if not then check if INC/BJP is junior/alliance if yes then keep it on its respective light if not then red color. That is also why TN should come in light blue. In addition that is also why TN became light saffron in 2019 after AIDMK and its fellow members joined NDA despite them having 0 seats. And yes it was changed to red again and back forth but the main discussion there was that BJP was not in an alliance with AIDMK in 2016. That is why I am reverting it back to light blue in a few hours.

Thank You Regards Naren Aviation — Preceding unsigned comment added by Naren aviation (talk • contribs) 09:12, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

@Naren aviation: The article you've linked states nothing that you claim. As far as I'm aware the whip has power only over their own party members. They cannot go around controlling other party members. The description of the map itself clearly specifies that a state would only be light blue if the government comprises of Other UPA coalition. The TN government "coalition" not only does it not have a single INC member but is not even a "coalition". How much more crystal clear can this be. Moreover it makes absolutely no sense to mark TN light blue as INC has literally no power in the state. You keep bringing up other states like Sikkim and I keep saying that Sikkim is also inaccurately portrayed. So since you took the liberty to revert it to an inaccurate revision, I will revert it back to the accurate one. Nirinsanity (talk) 13:52, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

Nirinsanity , Hey dude. I have said one thing and you have completely taken into your brain with a completely different meaning. If you read my response it states that according to the image - This is cause a state should be in light color if it satisfies one of the 2 options - A) the party is in a coalition with INC/BJP B) INC/BJP is a junior party, and if seat-sharing talks were also held. I have said that but you have only taken point A and drafted your response while point B has been gone. In addition, many users like at least 5 people now have all been saying Tn is light blue. It's YOU who has the issue. All the people who have been revering it to the TN light blue version have been stating the same thing. In addition, you said that the image has only compromised of "Other UPA Coalition". But in reality the image states this

1) Other NDA parties (BJP as a junior partner) (Bihar - JD(U), Meghalaya - NPP, Mizoram - MNF, Nagaland - NDPP, Sikkim - SDF, Puducherry - AINRC) 2) Other UPA coalition (INC as junior partner) (Maharashtra - Shiv Sena, Jharkhand - JMM, Tamil Nadu - DMK)

I have been trying to revert it to the blue version cause what many of us believe falls within the range of the image description and rule. But what you have been saying only falls for one half. In conclusion, TN comes under light blue - UPA Coalition (Or) INC as a junior partner.

Thank You Regards, Naren Aviation — Preceding unsigned comment added by Naren aviation (talk • contribs) 11:24, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

@Naren aviation: There was no reason for me to discuss your point B as that is not even there on the image description. There is no mention of seat-sharing talks or whatever in the image description, so that is completely irrelevant. If you want to make such a map, go ahead and make your own. This whole concept of making Indian politics a subject of only two parties is highly unbecoming of the idea of India and its federalism. Why should everything be centered on just these two parties? What if someone were to add a third category after BJP and INC, that could go something like this:

 

CPI(M) (or CPI(M) led coalition)

Kerala

 

Other progressive coalition (CPI(M) as junior partner)

Tamil Nadu

Since CPI(M) is also a part of the Tamil Nadu "coalition", we could add this to the image description and change the color of Kerala red and the color of Tamil Nadu light red and it would be as equally coherent with your logic. Why is INC the focus here and why not some other party like CPI(M)?

@Caped crusader 123: Please follow the discussion here and discuss before reverting. Nirinsanity (talk) 11:59, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

Nirinsanity , How am I supposed to know? That is how Indian politics have been for decades. It has been centered around BJP and INC. In addition BJP and INC themselves contest in all the elections but the parties like CPI, CPI(M) don't. In addition, they win a high amount of seats and they have founded 2 very successful alliances. Look at BSP there MGB alliance immediately broke up after the election. And coming back to your point it was like this - Other UPA coalition (INC as junior partner) this basically means INC Coalition or INC as a junior party. To make it simple I broke it up into A and B. That is why I broke it up to A and B. And in addition, I never said TN was a coalition. You are once again misreading what I said. I said INC is a junior partner mainly because DMK is mainly part of UPA (INC founded alliance) and SPA (DMK founded alliance with INC as second most important). That's what I meant. In addition, the reason is that INC and BJP form their own alliance but don't join other nationwide alliances like Left Front. But parties Left Fron like CPI, CPI(M) all join and support UPA like in Assam. And most importantly the topic is getting diverted so we should revert back to the topic. And that TN should be in light blue.

Thank You Regards, Naren Aviation

@Naren aviation: The whole point here is that the map is not about INC, CPI(M) or even DMK for that matter. The point is that the TN Government (whoever be the ruling party) does not consist of any INC or BJP members. It doesn't matter that the DMK is a part of the UPA or that the DMK is a part of the SPA or whatever other new alliance they come up with tomorrow. The TN Government is completely homogeneous, bereft of any other parties members and that is all that should matter. And as far as alliances in Tamil Nadu are concerned, DMK is not a part of the UPA. It is the INC that is a part of the SPA. If it was the UPA that was in power in TN, there wouldn't be any CPI(M) members in the alliance because CPI(M) has never been a part of the UPA since 2008 as can be seen here. Nirinsanity (talk) 13:59, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

Nirinsanity , What? DMK has always been part of UPA since 2003 (except from 2013-2016) and in the 2016 TN election, they even connected from the name of UPA. The only reason they contested from SPA in 2021 was that parties like CPI, CPI(M) want to contest with them but don't want to join UPA just for TN. That is why they contested from SPA for this election. And DMK in TN is like BJP in Lok Sabha. Does not require additional partners in the alliance like INC for DMK and AD(S) for BJP but they have. And in addition, the image requires it to be a coalition or a junior party, and since it satisfies that INC is a junior party. Yes INC can just leave and form their own one and it won't affect DMK at all. But also remember till that happens it will always come under. - INC as Junior Partner.

Thank You, Regards, Naren Aviation — Preceding unsigned comment added by Naren aviation (talk • contribs) 07:17, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

@Naren aviation: My point is that it is not the UPA that is in power in Tamil Nadu, but the SPA. There is no concept of UPA in Tamil Nadu right now. DMK maybe a part of the UPA at the Union level but at the state level, it is the INC that is a part of the SPA. Hence, the TN government cannot be classified as a UPA government or other UPA coalition or anything related to UPA. INC being junior partner is of zero relevance here because of two reasons: 1) It is not even a partner in the government. 2) It is a junior partner in the SPA alliance and not in the UPA alliance. Nirinsanity (talk) 07:43, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

Nirinsanity , Let's go by your logic that it can only come if it is UPA or NDA if not it should not be. Then why does Maha come if it is led by NCP with SS coming at second then INC? Why does half of northeast India states come under light saffron when it is NDAEA alliance. It's not about allinace if a INC/BJP come as a junior party it automatically comes in light blue/saffron.

Thank You, Regards, Naren Aviation — Preceding unsigned comment added by Naren aviation (talk • contribs) 08:34, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

@Naren aviation: Open Government of Maharashtra and tell me if there are any INC blue color. There are, right? Good, then Maharastra deserves to be light blue. Now open Government of Tamil Nadu and tell if you see any INC blue color. There aren't? Then Tamil Nadu does NOT deserve to be light blue. Simple as that. If North East states are also wrongly depicted, then they should be changed as well. That is what I've been saying since the beginning. Nirinsanity (talk) 09:15, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

Nirinsanity , See Nirinsanity. That's how you feel. You feel that if there is no cabinet minister from INC or BJP it should not be in light blue. But all the people who have been changing this amp since 2018 start don't. Then in that scenario create your own page for political maps and create your own map. All of the states go by the description of how it should be color-coded. You have a different opinion in that scenario create your own page and add your own image. States in the Northeast were like that since starting and nobody ever argued because everyone knew that even if there are no cabinet ministers having INC or BJP as a junior partner is enough.

Thank You, Regards, Naren Aviation

Hey Nirinsanity, There hasn't been any form of reply from you in days, and it is closed for near 5 days. So I am closing the argument on TN colour and officially declaring TN will be in light blue and the map will only change when a government collapses and forms again or until the 2022 Feb-Mar election period. You may no longer receive any responses from me as it's closed now. Until the next cheers bud, it was fun :).

Thank You, Regards, Naren Aviation — Preceding unsigned comment added by Naren aviation (talk • contribs) 13:27, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

Edit warring

Continuous disruptive edits and edit warring by @User:Nirinsanity. INC and DMK fought the election on seat sharing alliance and INC is a part of ruling government (minor partner in alliance), just like in Bihar and Jharkhand, and BJP in 5 states where it is a minor partner in government. Stop making these repetitive changes without discussion and consensus at Indian politics Wikiproject. Dhruv edits (talk) 20:21, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

@Dhruv edits Happy to discuss. If you look at the map description, it clearly says

 

Other parties in coalition with INC (INC as junior partner)

(Bihar - JD(U), Jharkhand - JMM, Tamil Nadu - DMK)

You can go ahead and look up the differences between an "alliance" and a "coalition" (Example). Once you do that, it is crystal clear that the Tamil Nadu government is not a coalition. Since it's not a coalition, the INC has de facto no power in the Tamil Nadu government. Therefore, it needs no representation in Tamil Nadu. Please point out where I'm wrong with these points. Nirinsanity (talk) 05:03, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

@Nirinsanity I can see there already has been discussion related to this in the talk page. If you want to start one again, do that in Wikiproject India politics, but do not revert the map to your version. You have been engaged in blatant edit warring here. Dhruv edits (talk) 05:09, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

@Dhruv edits The discussion is regarding this file. So we can talk here. If you don't have any counter-points, I'll be reverting the image to the correct version. Nirinsanity (talk) 05:23, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

@Nirinsanity This discussion is not limited to this state or this file only. As per your argument, changes will have to be made for other states as well, which will also lead to making changes in lots of Wikipedia articles. This is a discussion fit for members of Wikiproject, not talk page of a commons file, where members of WP cannot see and be part of the discussion, and a consensus can be reached for the same. I am happy to discuss it there. You have been warned on file talk page as well as your talk page regarding edit warring. If you revert again without a consensus, you will be reported for edit warring and could lose your editing privileges. Dhruv edits (talk) 05:43, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

@Dhruv edits According to Wikimedia guidelines, I think I'm not wrong in discussing it here. If I'm wrong, please point out a guideline that I've not respected. If not, I think I will continue to discuss it here. And please provide any counter-points to the points I've made regarding the primary issue here. If not, I will wait for a while before I revert the file to the correct version. Nirinsanity (talk) 05:57, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

@Nirinsanity A consensus was already reached regarding this in 2021. DMK is a part of UPA (2nd largest party in UPA), and they both have a seat sharing alliance in TN, and part of ruling alliance (with other alliance partners). The parties mentioned in "Others" are not part of UPA or NDA, which is not the case for DMK. The other section is created for parties with no relation to UPA or NDA in that state, which is not the case for DMK. Dhruv edits (talk) 06:09, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

Also coalition government don't only mean govts formed out of necessity. It also includes all party alliance and alliances created for supermajority in the assembly. For example, Nagaland had a all party alliance in the assembly in 20112021. All 3 parties in Nagaland assembly were part of ruling govt. Dhruv edits (talk) 06:14, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

@Dhruv edits There was no consensus reached. I failed to respond beyond a point, as I got a little busy in real life. And for the record, the user with whom I was engaging, Naren aviation has since been indefinitely blocked for abusive behavior. So the discussion with that user is indication of nothing.

Please provide some sources to illustrate your points, as they make no sense to me. The definition of a coalition is crystal clear. If I've misunderstood its meaning, please enlighten me, with some good sources. Also, Nagaland had elections in 2008 and 2013 but none in 2011. So it's not clear what you're referring to. Nirinsanity (talk) 06:18, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

@Nirinsanity Corrected to 2021 with source Dhruv edits (talk) 06:23, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

@Nirinsanity I believe your issue is with the word "Coalition". If that's the only issue here, then we can change it from "Other parties in coalition with INC" to "Other UPA parties" (just like it is mentioned for NDA). Would you agree to that? Dhruv edits (talk) 06:34, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

@Dhruv edits It's not "my issue". It's about what it is correct. That's what Wikipedia is about. And if you make that change, that might be fine for this image. But it's not fine for the pages that this map is used on. Making that change makes the presence of this map on most of those Wikipedia pages pointless. en:List of current Indian chief ministers, for example. An "alliance" is only relevant during an election. The active government (coalition or not) is more relevant at any given point, than a relatively inconsequential alliance, especially when there's an absolute majority. So if you make this change, I will upload a new map, and update the new map on those pages. Nirinsanity (talk) 06:45, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

@Nirinsanity I have made the change since this map is about differentiating between NDA, UPA and other parties that have no alliance with NDA or UPA in state assembly. If a specific map is required, you can make one. Dhruv edits (talk) 07:05, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

Since DMK is now part of the Congress-led INDIA alliance, which replaced the previous Congress-led alliances, the above discussion can be considered moot. Pinging @Dhruv edits and Nirinsanity: for response. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 07:00, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

Also, the "rebel" Indian States Ruling Parties.svg map should be deleted or redirected to State- and union territory-level parties.svg. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 07:02, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

@Sbb1413 Agree. The current map is the best representation of alliances in state assemblies. The rebel map is redundant, incorrect and not being used on any page. There is no difference between Bihar, Jharkhand or Tamil Nadu assembly as far as I.N.D.I.A. alliance is considered. Dhruv edits (talk) 18:31, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

@Sbb1413: I don't think you get to decide what gets deleted and what doesn't on a platform like Commons. The map, though not up-to-date after the latest election results, is still a valid and distinct map from other alliance related maps. It will stay on Commons, and I will argue my case about its inclusion on Wikipedia pages later, when I'm a bit more free in real life. Nirinsanity (talk) 16:14, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

I don't think the map Indian States Ruling Parties.svg is useful for Wikipedia in such cases. You are free to create a series of maps on former Congress-led alliances (UPA, MVA etc.) separately. I may do so if I were more in the politics. While I'm not in the position to decide what gets deleted or not, the consensus established by several users like me can do so. I have just suggested that the map Indian States Ruling Parties.svg should be merged to the parent map as it was uploaded during an edit war. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 16:31, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

@Sbb1413 Feel free to try. Nirinsanity (talk) 16:44, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

Update

Please some one add BJD party of odisa in NDA alliance in the map.NHSRCL (talk) 10:18, 7 March 2024 (UTC)