File talk:Australia Station Squadron (AWM 304426).jpg

Date of image

The source lists the date as c. 1880. I have added a note refining that to 1887-90, when Calliope was on the Australia station. That also is consistent with the other named vessels; Opal was there from 1885-90; Egeria from 1886 until at least 1890; and Rapid from 1886-97. The one exception is HMS Alert, a vessel which apparently nowhere near Australia then. Is the ship misidentified? Kablammo (talk) 17:45, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

More than likely - I came across this cruise diary of HMS Calliope and found no mention of Alert there (though all the other ships - Rapid, Egeria, and Opal are present). This journal has listings for the ships of the Australia Station in 1889, which include Calliope, Opal, Rapid, and Swinger. And these editions of Brassey's Naval Annual and The Navy List lists the China and Australia stations in 1888 and 1887, respectively. Those should help you narrow down what the last vessel might be.

The Australia Station: a history of the Royal Navy in the south west Pacific, 1821-1913, though not viewable in Google Books, should help further if you can get your hands on a copy - there seem to be quite a few in circulation.

Hopefully some of that will be helpful to you. Parsecboy (talk) 19:24, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

According to this website, Alert spent 12 March 1879 - 20 September 1882 engaged in "surveying Canadian and Australian waters" under the command of Captain John Fiot Lee Pearse Maclear. The information is usually pretty accurate. Interestingly, the article HMS Alert does say she was in Australia during the period in question (under the sub heading "Survey (1876–1884)"). I suggest the AWM caption is right, and the Alert called in during while surveying in the region. 2.102.192.222 19:31, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Well that's correct, but then all of the other ships are misidentified, because they weren't in the area in the early 1880s. It's far more likely that the photo does not include Alert. Parsecboy (talk) 19:37, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

RN vessels on Australia Station in 1880s

I have posed a question on the identity of one of the vessels shown in File:Australia Station Squadron (AWM 304426).jpg at the talk page at Commons. At least according to our article, HMS Alert (1856), the ship in question, was nowhere near Australia when the image was taken. Nick-D, Rcbutcher or anyone else, can you shed any light on this question? Many thanks. Kablammo (talk) 18:17, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

I left a comment on the photo talk page. Hopefully it's of some help. Parsecboy (talk) 19:27, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

I've commented at the talk page, but our article (HMS Alert (1856)) does say "On 12 March 1879 Captain John Fiot Lee Pearse Maclear took command,[5] and under him she went to Australia Station and the Pacific". The reference given supports the period in Australian waters. I'd suggest the caption is correct. Shem (talk) 19:31, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

And I note that Doctor Richard Coppinger's diary shows Alert to have visited Sydney "Jan. 23-Apr. 16, 1881". I'd change my "probably" to "almost certainly", and also note the date of the photo is probably "early 1881" rather than c.1880. Shem (talk) 19:36, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Well, except that none of the other ships were on the Australia Station in the early 1880s - they were all there around 1886–1890 or so. Parsecboy (talk) 19:39, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks to all. Here is a summary of dates from Wikipedia articles on the other ships in the photo assigned to the Australian Station:

• Alert was there 1880-82, per Australian Station
• Calliope from 1887-90
• Opal from 1885-90
• Egeria from 1886 until at least 1890
• Rapid from 1886-97.

Kablammo (talk) 20:46, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Interesting. Now you mention it, the left-most ship doesn't look much like Calliope. For starters, Callipoe may well have been white, as shown by this picture of her as built in front of Semaphore Tower in Portsmouth, and in any case, the gunports and the rudder post look all wrong. Furthermore, in the photo, her funnel is bolt upright, but the Calypsos had raked funnels. The mast rake doesn't look right, either. Opal was there in 1875, as shown by File:HMS Opal Sydney 1880s.jpg (the meta data from the source says the photo was taken in 1875) and as stated in the article HMS Opal (1875), which cites Bastock. Note that she appears to be rigged as a barque, not a ship, which places the date as after 1880. Egeria was in the Far East from 1875, according to HMS Egeria (1873). I agree however that Rapid wasn't launched until 1883 - but the ship in the photo described as Rapid has a strongly raked bow - quite unlike the vertical stem of HMS Rapid (1883). It's not a great image, though, for ship spotting. Shem (talk) 22:22, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Hi Shem! Calliope is identified as the ship to the right, and I think that is correct. I don't know enough about any of the others. Kablammo (talk) 01:50, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

My bad! I was reading "left to right". It must have been late. Nevertheless, the ship to the right, identified in the photo as Calliope, has topgallant and royal yards crossed on her mizzen (Calliope was a barque and had no mizzen royal mast at all), a very obvious cut-away rudder post (Calliope's was straight), and is painted black (she left Portsmouth painted white). The funnel should be an obvious feature, and I can't make it out at all. It could just be HMS Wolverine (1863), though. Just a thought. Do you want to continue this conversation elsewhere? Shem (talk) 19:38, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

I think here is fine, as the discussion at Commons seems to have died out. I believe Calliope's rig changed from time to time (there are some images of her ship-rigged), and was painted dark in the Pacific, as shown here. The false quarter gallery may show in the image in question, but I agree that the stack, if it is there, is not obvious. I've invited Rif to come over and comment also. Kablammo (talk) 20:05, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

All good points - although I'm still inclined to believe that it can't be Calliope. Inviting Rif is an excellent plan. Thanks. Shem (talk) 21:45, 28 January 2014 (UTC)