File talk:Flag of Lebanon.svg

a tree

on the flag of lebonan is a tree --67.172.47.121

Yes, a cedar tree. ¦ Reisio 21:48, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

My version

I just uploaded a new version, but I have reverted it because the middle white bit was transparent. I couldn't work out how to make it white with Inkscape. If my one is better than the one that's up now can someone else make the middle bit white (and tell me how to do it) please?--Borb 22:19, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

tree colour

One can often see the cedar in green, but its bole in brown. Is the totally green version correct, as it's used here? -- burts ∞ 16:34, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

According to Article 5 in the national constitution, the tree is entirely green. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return fire)} 08:27, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

ANWSER: the lebanon flag is suppose to be all green, but its a common mistake to make the branches brown —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.88.116.206 (talk • contribs) 200812022219 (UTC)

Tree trunk colour

The "problem" of the flag of the Lebanese Republic is somewhat different than portrayed by my learned friend Zscout370.

True, the Article 5 of the Lebanese Constitution in its unofficial translation, defines the Lebanese flag:

The Lebanese flag is composed of three horizontal stripes, a white stripe between two red ones. The width (in fact height) of the white stripe is equal to that of both red stripes. In the centre of and occupying one third of the white stripe is a green Cedar tree with its top touching the upper red stripe and its base touching the lower red stripe.

Français : Le drapeau libanais est composé de trois bandes horizontales: deux rouges encadrant une blanche. La hauteur de la bande blanche est égale au double de chacune des bandes rouges. Au centre de la bande blanche figure un cèdre vert dont la largeur occupe le tiers de celle-ci et qui, par son sommet et par sa base, touche chacune des bandes rouges.

But from which sources can anybody claim the official ratio of the Lebanese flag. Some claimed 2:3 ratios, but this is as arbitrary as any other issue that can be found in connection with this particular flag.

The only device that has not been objected is the height of the stripes. We have three horizontal stripes where the middle stripe is of white colour and of the combined height of other two red stripes.

The green Cedar tree question should be more carefully discussed. Namely the Cedrus libani or Lebanon Cedar tree as any other tree has brown tree trunk. This fact is without question, but what about the use of that tree on this particular flag.

Well here opinion differs mainly because sources are scarce, there is no particular law other than the Constitution and documents that exist, sadly, are not of general knowledge.

This lack of general knowledge will change when those documents are read and properly explained.

We have the World Intellectual Property Organization (a UN specialized agency) where official symbols of Lebanon can be found.

On 1st of February 1967 the Director, Mr G. H. C. Bodenhausen of the (then called) Bureaux Internationaux Réunis pour la Protection de la Propriété Intellectuelle BIRPI (United International Bureau for the Protection of Intellectual Property) sent the Circular № 651 to all member states of the Paris Union (Paris Convention for the Protection of Industrial Property).

That document listed countries that requested protection of their armorial bearings, flags and other State emblems of those States and Members identified above, as well as official signs and hallmarks indicating control and warranty adopted by them.

That document listed only those countries that have before the above mentioned date requested such protection; listed on the page 3 of the document. The list is comprised of 10 states; those being: Austria, Canada, Germany (Federal Republic), Germany (Democratic Republic), Italy, Japan, Lebanon, Liechtenstein, Netherlands and Switzerland.

The protected flag still exists in WIPO, Geneva (Switzerland) and can be seen here. It was also sent to the Industry Property Protection Office of the Lebanese Republic (now probably called Intellectual Property Protection Office of the Ministry of Economy and Trade of the Lebanese Republic).

So in that time the Lebanese Republic flag looked like that image portrays. Should it still look the same? By my account it should and differences of opinions continue. Why it should look the same? It should, because one must think deeper and look at the facts. In that time the Prime Minister of the Lebanese Republic was Rashid Karami.

He was elected for his fifth term in office (1966-12-07 to 1968-02-08) and served as PM for eight times in total. The President of the Lebanese Republic was Charles Alexandre Hélou (1964-09-23 to 1970-09-22). The late PM Rashid Karami has been the son of one of the nations heroes Abdul Hamid Karami.

If they misinterpreted the Constitution of Lebanon I do not know who could better to interpret the Constitution that the leaders in time of National Liberation of Lebanon.

When using the constitution and the practice, as well as usage, then we would come to these conclusions.

1. We should make a significant difference and use the green-brown Cedar tree (brown for tree the trunk).
2. We should draw the height of the flag according to the height of the tree and the width of the flag according to the width of the tree.

When I draw Image:Flag of the Lebanese Republic.png I used the Cedar tree from an official document.

• The height of the Cedar tree should be the height of the white stripe. In my case it was 253
• Half of the height of the white stripe is the height of the red stripes. In my case it was 126.5
• Total height is the combined white stripe and two red stripes - 506.
• Width of the Cedar tree should be considered as one of the thirds (one segment). In my case it was 324. 324×3 is 972.

So if you do not have a Cedar tree emblem that is considered official or at least considered more official than the one which the Government of the Lebanese Republic requested protection before 1st of February 1967 then this should be considered most official.

The flag that Henri Pharaon designed is not this 2:3 ratio flag with all together green Cedar tree. It is the flag that was raised in Bashamoun on 21st of November 1943 at 11:20 pm.

It is believed that this same flag is now kept in the Lebanese National Museum, although it may have been transported to the Governmental Palace in Bteddine. This should be more carefully investigated. Even this flag couldn’t be named "first original" or master-original it could serve as a starting point.

Why my learned friends cling onto the Constitution only and not to the praxis of the Lebanese nationals which do use green Cedar trees with brown tree trunks.

And in the same time give not much credit to some other constitutions and laws which do describe most accurately the flags that are of their interest.

The data from the Constitution of Lebanese Republic had been written on 7th of December 1943 during the World War II. Did the constitution makers think this "problem" would raise so much doubt and different interpretations?

Where has the Constitution been written? In which circumstances? This should also play a role in interpretation of this particular flag.

Do you believe that every member of the parliament received a copy with a flag enclosed? I do not think so.

The ratio is definitely more of a 1:2 variety, at least if we base our decisions on real documents.

Some of the information has been written here http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/Flags/lb.html also.

Also we can found a dozen of books and other sources from before the Internet revolution that use green Cedar tree with brown tree trunk. Did all of those authors from the past make a huge mistake? I do not think so.

Rainman 03:05, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Comments

Also some people might have evidence that this was the first Lebanese flag, the Independence flag, signed by the deputies in 1943. (maybe is the same as the Lebanese National Museum kept) -- Rainman 04:01, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

The flag looks right. I noticed from comparing images from different monitors is that flags appear lighter at my end than others. In this case, I do not have exact colors to use for this flag. Plus, I have flags from the Lebanon Embassy in the USA and the trunks are all green. The flag looks fine. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return fire)} 06:14, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

it:Bandiera libanese still holds the first drawing as it was drawn in 1943. This drawing has the signatures of the original members of parliament that declared independence. -- Rainman 07:36, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Ok, but that still doesn't change the fact the flag image presented here is correct as to what is used today. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return fire)} 08:29, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

And, amongst others, the fact that the text of the constitution does state that the cedar is supposed to be green. Hello guys, I did not see this discussion at first, just noticed the intervention of Rainman on Image:Leb flag1.PNG. Bradipus 15:56, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

I am not trying to change anything, but put information up for discussion. Also Bradipus is correct the fact is that the Constitution specificied provisions that the Cedar tree is supposed to be entirely green. But this doesn't mean that the Lebanese nationals would be punished if not abided the flag provisions of the Constitution in exact detail. Also we are not here to select anything but only to express our oppinions and belifs which could be a basis for greater understanding of this issue.

The Constitution is simply not the only source and the deletion request that Bradipus is linking is not a good way to broaden knowledge and understanding. Every user that would choose to write about the Lebanese flag would go for the sVG. They wouldn't even look at a PNG.

We should aim to try to explain the history of the Lebanese flag. We should not dismiss flags with brown trunks this easily. We should ask our selves when the Lebanese nationals started to use so much flags, they are now a truly flag happy people, with one of the greatest number of flags per person. This happened recently, it has not always been that way. I think it started after the assassination of Rafik Hariri in 2005.

Rainman 22:00, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

We do not have enough details to explain the Lebanese flag fully, given few information is given out about the flag in English. Plus, that is Wikipedia's job, not ours at the Commons. We just host media. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return fire)} 22:27, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

There are also other "jobs" that this Commons:Project scope is dedicated to. Correct descriptions, translations, ... I do not argue the fact that primary purpose is hosting media, but there are other things we are ought to consider. -- Rainman 19:53, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

It is not our job to say why or how the trunk color changed from brown to green, or what it took in the laws to make the flag correct. Yes, we can host the old design, but what we have right now is pretty much all I expect the Commons to do. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return fire)} 03:19, 12 March 2008 (UTC)