English subtitles for clip: File:Will Wikipedia exist in 20 years-.webm

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hello hello welcome everyone I hope most

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of you managed to get lunch we have a

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great fortune today of welcoming my

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friend Katherine Maher the executive

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director of the Wikimedia Foundation, the

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charity that supports Wikipedia and its

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sister projects, and has for the past 15

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years, and she has previously done work

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supporting Health and Human Rights and a

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bunch in many parts of the world she

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worked at the World Bank and it access

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now and when we first met she was

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helping start off the innovation team at

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UNICEF trying to trying to build health

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and child welfare projects on a on an

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infrastructure of open source tools and

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we're luckily talking about what what

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the future holds for Wikipedia positives

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and negatives whether it's going to be

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around in in 20 years and which we'll be

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having a little conversation afterwards

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with benkler for the people just coming

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in we run out of chairs don't sweat it

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feel free to hang out anywhere you want

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along the side and this is being

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recorded so if you're doing something

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particularly exciting just be sure to

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look up when you do it Katherine's

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thanks so much for coming

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hey everyone can I don't think I'm on

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does that can you hear me now well I am

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incredibly excited to be here and

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speaking about this topic today it's

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something that has consumed my thinking

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for the past year and the thinking of

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the Wikimedia community and Wikimedia

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Foundation as a whole I'm also just

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delighted to be here because esterday

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mentioned my relationship just with the

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Berkman community goes back to when I

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was at UNICEF and this is a community

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that has given so much to the to the

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world in which I work over the years and

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I have so much respect for all of the

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work that you do so this is kind of

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really exciting moment for me to be here

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to talk about this thing that I care so

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much about and probably is something

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that you're all familiar with and have

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your own deep feelings and associations

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with as well so I was asked to talk

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about whether Wikimedia would exist in

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20 years and I'm gonna use this

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presentation but it's also gonna be a

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little bit informal as I go along you

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know one of the things that they teach

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you is you should always answer the

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question you wish you'd been asked and

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so instead of s talking about when

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you're asked a question and since I'm

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talking about Wikipedia in 20 years what

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I'm really going to talk about is

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Wikipedia in 15 years because that is

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what we have been talking about at the

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Wikimedia Foundation for the last little

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while we asked ourselves the same

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question of whether Wikipedia will exist

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and I'm happy to say the immediate gut

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reaction is yes but hopefully it's going

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to be much more than Wikipedia by the

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time we're done and 15 years what would

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that make it 30 to 20 30 - nope yes

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right okay 2030 - by the 2030 -

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hopefully it's a lot more than Wikipedia

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that you're thinking about when you're

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thinking about the Wikimedia ecosystem

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so on our 15th birthday which was

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January 15th 2016 because we were

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starting 2001 not 2000 although that

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would have been really nice if we'd had

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that nice round number we got to

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thinking you know 15 years in we were

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this remarkable project and we had this

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moment of celebration but it also made

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us ask ourselves the question we're kind

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of

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grown up in terms of internet years

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there have been many projects that were

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started around the same time that we

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were started that have come and gone and

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yet here we are and not only are we

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something that has succeeded in sort of

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maintaining our longevity in some ways

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were much larger and more ambitious in

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terms of our scope and scale than we

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ever thought we would be so what does

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the next 15 years hold what when we look

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back in twenty thirty two can we say

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that we've accomplished not just

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building the free encyclopedia but

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really what's a sort of midpoint vision

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that we want to set our eyes on but

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before I go back forward I want to go

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back this is what Wikipedia looked like

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many moons ago you may recognize this so

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anyone in the room recognize this

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Wikipedia a few a few hands you know

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people like to tell me that Wikipedia

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hasn't changed since it started and then

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I like to show them this slide you know

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back in the day Wikipedia was pretty

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wild and wooly and a lot of our articles

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were pretty rudimentary this is one of

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my favorite articles this is the article

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entry for the Standard Poodle and if you

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read closely you'll see the standard

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poodle is the dog by which all other

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dogs are measured nerd jokes most of

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these have been edited out of Wikipedia

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by now but I still find them funny and

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of course you know the other thing about

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Wikipedia that we like to say is that as

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wikipedia has grown it's also sort of

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defied expectations there is a statement

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that the problem with Wikipedia is that

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it only works in practice because of

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course in theory it would never work or

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it is a total disaster and I have

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attribution needed in there because

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nobody really knows where this comes

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from I've heard some folks say that a

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certain Jonathan Zittrain may have

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coined it but I've heard others say that

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absolutely not this comes from the

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community so I'm gonna put a struggie in

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there add a template and say after

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bution needed and in reality this is

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what we think about all the time how

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could something that is this

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crowd-sourced if you want to use that

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term certainly collaborative project

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work in such a way that it would expand

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to all these hundreds of different

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languages across so many different tear

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a topic and subject matter and involve

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and engage the contribution of not just

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hundreds of thousands but literally

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millions of people over time and get

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them to agree on such contentious topics

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as pokémon and the israeli-palestinian

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conflict and yet somehow it does and

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it's grown up a lot I mean this is

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actually what the standard poodle or

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poodle article looks like today perhaps

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not quite as wild and wooly but

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certainly full of citations and

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information for everything that you

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might need you can see that it's got

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templates and info boxes and is embedded

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into wiki data which we're going to talk

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a little bit more about later and truly

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a resource that people depend on all the

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time so what is that resource look at

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what does that resource look like and

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what's a scale that it has in the world

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as I mentioned were much larger than

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just an encyclopedia at this point in

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many ways but when most people come to

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visit Wikipedia they're behaving as

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though it is an encyclopedia and the

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article is probably the first and final

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thing that they see and that's fine that

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that is after all a lot of what we're

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here to do today on average we receive

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about one point four billion device

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visits a month we don't actually know

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how many unique visitors there are

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because our privacy policies prevent us

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from tracking unique users which is a

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thing that we're very proud of but so

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1.4 billion unique devices this number

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does go up and down as the school year

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goes in and out as you can imagine we

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get a little less traffic during the

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summer months and a lot less traffic on

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Christmas Day until everyone opens their

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iPhones and then sort of the traffic

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pops back up again um but as you can

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imagine this really means that we serve

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quite a large section of the world and

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just in terms of traffic volume alone

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this puts us is as the fifth largest web

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site on the internet today and certainly

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the only non-commercial web site that

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really cracks the top ten certainly I

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don't know where you would put BBC on

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that but certainly the largest

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non-commercial web site it's really

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serving sort of a broad audience as a

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website first but it's so much more than

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just Wikipedia Wikipedia of course is

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the inside I'll go back for a moment

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Wikipedia of course is the encyclopedia

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and to give you a sense of where we

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stand we have nearly 300 Wikipedia's

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across 300 different languages there are

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40 plus million articles across all of

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those three

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hundred languages know some of them

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range tremendously English is the

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largest with more than 5.4 million

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articles and then you have smaller

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Wikipedia projects like Xhosa Wikipedia

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which has about a thousand articles and

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so some of these are really emergent

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projects but a lot of them are large

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functional projects that serve the

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communities and the languages that their

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intended intended to serve so the 40

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million articles roughly 300 languages

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to give you a sense of just the scale of

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it it's edited 350 times a minute we

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have more than 250,000 people who edit

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it every single month of which about 70

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to 80 thousand edit more than five times

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a month and over time we know that that

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has been millions and millions of people

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again we don't have exact numbers

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because we just don't track these sorts

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of things but I think it's reasonable to

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say that a crowd around the world at

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least tens of millions of people have

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contributed to a capilla over time

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making it a project that is truly of the

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people by the people for the people if

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you will but what I was saying earlier

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is it's that it's so much more than just

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the article space Wikipedia at this

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point is truly somewhat of a graph of

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human knowledge now it is an imperfect

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knowledge we'll certainly say that and

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we'll get into that a little bit when

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talking about what the future looks like

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but this for example is a mat of dbpedia

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or database pedia which is a separate

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project we don't run this but because of

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our open licensing policies and the way

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that we make everything transparent and

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accessible and work with researchers

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this is some this is a project that

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actually looks at the structured and

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linked data within Wikipedia and then

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maps it and what you can see is that

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this is actually an ecosystem of

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everything that is influenced by the

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datasets that are contained within

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Wikipedia so if you're using natural

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language processing tools if you're

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using machine translation chances are

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that even just sort of algorithms in

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general these days chances are that they

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have been touched or trained in some

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sort of way on the data that Wikipedia

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provides intentional or otherwise

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whether it's the datasets that we

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release or whether it's just brute force

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scraping of the corpus that exists

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within the projects Wikipedia is

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influencing things in ways that go far

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beyond looking up that article about the

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Standard Poodle a recent study that came

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out really recently supported by MIT

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talking about how access to Wikipedia

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influences scientific dialogue with an

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average

276
00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:11,760
one for 200 words being influenced by

277
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the information that's accessible on

278
00:10:13,260 --> 00:10:16,170
Wikipedia conversations about how 50% of

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doctors use Wikipedia as a primary

280
00:10:17,970 --> 00:10:22,110
source there's a study don't laugh this

281
00:10:22,110 --> 00:10:26,820
is actually really important what would

282
00:10:26,820 --> 00:10:28,320
say to doctors is the same thing we say

283
00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:30,060
to educators use it as a jumping-off

284
00:10:30,060 --> 00:10:32,340
point check the citations please don't

285
00:10:32,340 --> 00:10:34,020
make any life-changing decisions based

286
00:10:34,020 --> 00:10:36,660
on Wikipedia you know we say the same

287
00:10:36,660 --> 00:10:38,310
thing that I would say I was told as a

288
00:10:38,310 --> 00:10:39,900
student like you can't cite an

289
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encyclopedia so don't say Wikipedia and

290
00:10:42,390 --> 00:10:44,700
you're in your report but this is

291
00:10:44,700 --> 00:10:46,200
actually really important and the reason

292
00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:48,330
this is really important is it's nice to

293
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think about all the access to medical

294
00:10:49,770 --> 00:10:51,360
resources that we have sitting in this

295
00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:52,920
room on our high bandwidth connections

296
00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:54,690
but if you actually look at the access

297
00:10:54,690 --> 00:10:56,280
that most people have in the world it's

298
00:10:56,280 --> 00:10:58,110
quite limited and so these are tools

299
00:10:58,110 --> 00:11:00,360
that provide an essential resource for

300
00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:01,830
those doctors and medical students who

301
00:11:01,830 --> 00:11:03,510
are operating and working in low

302
00:11:03,510 --> 00:11:05,370
bandwidth environments and Wikipedia's a

303
00:11:05,370 --> 00:11:06,750
high quality source of information in

304
00:11:06,750 --> 00:11:09,690
this regard in politics there was a

305
00:11:09,690 --> 00:11:10,800
recent study that came out of the

306
00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:11,970
business school here that showed that

307
00:11:11,970 --> 00:11:13,680
the more you edit Wikipedia if you come

308
00:11:13,680 --> 00:11:15,660
in with a partisan viewpoint the more

309
00:11:15,660 --> 00:11:17,490
neutral your language becomes making

310
00:11:17,490 --> 00:11:19,170
Wikipedia the only place on the web that

311
00:11:19,170 --> 00:11:20,550
I know where people become more

312
00:11:20,550 --> 00:11:22,890
reasonable after participating rather

313
00:11:22,890 --> 00:11:25,440
than less and as I mentioned earlier

314
00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:27,090
it's not just Wikipedia Wikimedia

315
00:11:27,090 --> 00:11:29,160
Commons is our free image repository

316
00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:30,900
with more than 40 million free images

317
00:11:30,900 --> 00:11:33,060
that's as many images as exist as

318
00:11:33,060 --> 00:11:35,520
articles in Wikipedia and wiki data

319
00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:37,830
which is our relatively new 5 years old

320
00:11:37,830 --> 00:11:41,070
free and open data source CC 0 licensed

321
00:11:41,070 --> 00:11:43,410
structured and linked data really sort

322
00:11:43,410 --> 00:11:45,120
of making the ideal of the Semantic Web

323
00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:47,250
real or at least we're trying and to

324
00:11:47,250 --> 00:11:48,630
give you a sense of how large this is

325
00:11:48,630 --> 00:11:51,180
Wiki data now accounts for over 50% of

326
00:11:51,180 --> 00:11:52,470
all of the edits that are made within

327
00:11:52,470 --> 00:11:54,870
the Wikimedia ecosystem today I really

328
00:11:54,870 --> 00:11:56,430
see it as the future of what free

329
00:11:56,430 --> 00:11:57,660
knowledge looks like within the

330
00:11:57,660 --> 00:11:59,880
wikimedia environment and we're not just

331
00:11:59,880 --> 00:12:01,890
a website we're a community as well this

332
00:12:01,890 --> 00:12:03,570
represents everywhere we where we have

333
00:12:03,570 --> 00:12:05,640
an affiliate organization or some sort

334
00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:07,110
of body that's working to advance free

335
00:12:07,110 --> 00:12:09,390
knowledge these are some of the friendly

336
00:12:09,390 --> 00:12:11,310
faces of the folks who do it they

337
00:12:11,310 --> 00:12:12,960
partner around the world they advocate

338
00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:15,330
for open knowledge policy in the

339
00:12:15,330 --> 00:12:17,160
European Union in the United States and

340
00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:18,900
many sort of administration's and

341
00:12:18,900 --> 00:12:20,700
legislative bodies globally they're

342
00:12:20,700 --> 00:12:22,490
working to advance free knowledge not

343
00:12:22,490 --> 00:12:23,899
just the Encyclopaedia and I think that

344
00:12:23,899 --> 00:12:25,250
that is really the core of what we're

345
00:12:25,250 --> 00:12:26,390
going to talk about today

346
00:12:26,390 --> 00:12:28,459
of course as we looked at what the world

347
00:12:28,459 --> 00:12:30,230
is going to look like in 15 years we

348
00:12:30,230 --> 00:12:31,610
wanted to also understand what the world

349
00:12:31,610 --> 00:12:34,160
itself looks like and so we began by

350
00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:36,560
doing some really simple things we can't

351
00:12:36,560 --> 00:12:38,089
project what technology will look like

352
00:12:38,089 --> 00:12:41,600
but we can count babies and in 15 years

353
00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:43,310
the world is going to look really

354
00:12:43,310 --> 00:12:46,070
different populations in places where we

355
00:12:46,070 --> 00:12:48,890
are most prevalent are shrinking some of

356
00:12:48,890 --> 00:12:50,270
our largest Wikipedia's today are

357
00:12:50,270 --> 00:12:51,589
Wikipedia's like Russian Wikipedia

358
00:12:51,589 --> 00:12:54,410
Japanese Wikipedia German Wikipedia and

359
00:12:54,410 --> 00:12:57,070
of course English Wikipedia and

360
00:12:57,070 --> 00:12:59,149
populations are growing in places where

361
00:12:59,149 --> 00:13:02,360
we do not exist so we have some

362
00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:04,690
questions that that puts in front of us

363
00:13:04,690 --> 00:13:06,920
we also know that there are tremendous

364
00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:09,589
changes in the production consolidation

365
00:13:09,589 --> 00:13:11,920
and dissemination of information

366
00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:14,149
consolidation is something that I'm sure

367
00:13:14,149 --> 00:13:15,950
many of you are familiar with the fact

368
00:13:15,950 --> 00:13:17,839
that the top five I mentioned that were

369
00:13:17,839 --> 00:13:20,480
one of the top five visited websites two

370
00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:21,920
of those top five are owned by one

371
00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:24,320
company of the top 10 apps in the App

372
00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:26,240
Store the majority are owned by three

373
00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:28,910
companies so consolidation on the web or

374
00:13:28,910 --> 00:13:30,800
if you can even call apps the web given

375
00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:33,200
that they are closed Gardens is a real

376
00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:34,910
consideration and that has tremendous

377
00:13:34,910 --> 00:13:36,290
implications for the way that

378
00:13:36,290 --> 00:13:38,180
information is disseminated end as well

379
00:13:38,180 --> 00:13:40,420
the way that information is produced

380
00:13:40,420 --> 00:13:42,890
these have implications for a secondary

381
00:13:42,890 --> 00:13:44,480
something like us which relies

382
00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:47,029
exclusively on secondary sources that

383
00:13:47,029 --> 00:13:48,380
doesn't even get into the issues of

384
00:13:48,380 --> 00:13:50,510
reliability and credibility and I hate

385
00:13:50,510 --> 00:13:52,160
the term but I'll use it anyway fake

386
00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:54,290
news which is something that comes up

387
00:13:54,290 --> 00:13:56,470
quite frequently in our conversations

388
00:13:56,470 --> 00:13:59,149
Wikipedia is also something that most

389
00:13:59,149 --> 00:14:01,250
people know as something that they use

390
00:14:01,250 --> 00:14:03,680
through a browser I don't know the last

391
00:14:03,680 --> 00:14:05,450
time anybody used it not through a

392
00:14:05,450 --> 00:14:07,310
browser except maybe you have like a

393
00:14:07,310 --> 00:14:09,440
Google home or an Alexa or you've asked

394
00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:11,570
it a question via Siri chances are if

395
00:14:11,570 --> 00:14:12,920
you've engaged with any one of those

396
00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:14,540
devices and asked them a general purpose

397
00:14:14,540 --> 00:14:16,490
knowledge question you've asked them a

398
00:14:16,490 --> 00:14:17,959
question that has been answered through

399
00:14:17,959 --> 00:14:19,720
information scraped out of Wikipedia

400
00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:22,070
Wikipedia doesn't have an app that does

401
00:14:22,070 --> 00:14:23,420
that and we certainly don't have a home

402
00:14:23,420 --> 00:14:25,399
assisted device so there are questions

403
00:14:25,399 --> 00:14:27,770
about experiential intermediation that

404
00:14:27,770 --> 00:14:29,300
are starting to come to the surface

405
00:14:29,300 --> 00:14:31,459
which isn't just a consumption layer

406
00:14:31,459 --> 00:14:34,640
it's also a participation layer because

407
00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:36,170
Wikipedia relies on

408
00:14:36,170 --> 00:14:37,730
dissipation as a means of staying

409
00:14:37,730 --> 00:14:40,519
up-to-date credible accurate and

410
00:14:40,519 --> 00:14:42,709
relevant to the world and so we're

411
00:14:42,709 --> 00:14:44,240
asking ourselves what is the direct

412
00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:46,279
connection that we need to have to go

413
00:14:46,279 --> 00:14:49,130
from readwrite only on the web to go

414
00:14:49,130 --> 00:14:50,959
into being readwrite across multiple

415
00:14:50,959 --> 00:14:53,449
different experiences because part of

416
00:14:53,449 --> 00:14:55,130
our core promise is a promise of

417
00:14:55,130 --> 00:14:57,170
participation a world in which every

418
00:14:57,170 --> 00:14:58,880
single person can freely share in

419
00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:01,310
knowledge not just consume it we think

420
00:15:01,310 --> 00:15:02,899
that's critical to being engaged

421
00:15:02,899 --> 00:15:05,060
knowledge participants and advocates and

422
00:15:05,060 --> 00:15:07,820
of course there declare is declining

423
00:15:07,820 --> 00:15:10,160
trust in civic institutions and changing

424
00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:12,680
policy environments everywhere we look

425
00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:14,540
these are pressures that are coming to

426
00:15:14,540 --> 00:15:17,449
bear as spaces globally continue to

427
00:15:17,449 --> 00:15:18,949
close spaces for freedom of expression

428
00:15:18,949 --> 00:15:21,560
and specific nations certainly but also

429
00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:23,389
discourses that we're having right here

430
00:15:23,389 --> 00:15:25,459
in the United States I certainly never

431
00:15:25,459 --> 00:15:27,170
expected to live into the period where I

432
00:15:27,170 --> 00:15:28,399
saw the president of this country

433
00:15:28,399 --> 00:15:30,589
question the license of the Free Press

434
00:15:30,589 --> 00:15:32,449
not that there aren't licenses for the

435
00:15:32,449 --> 00:15:33,920
Free Press but that is a very different

436
00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:36,589
issue and in some places there are and

437
00:15:36,589 --> 00:15:38,240
in some of those places Wikipedia is not

438
00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:40,699
accessible and we've made that choice

439
00:15:40,699 --> 00:15:43,220
not to censor our information but to

440
00:15:43,220 --> 00:15:45,410
acknowledge that we would rather stand

441
00:15:45,410 --> 00:15:47,390
for freedom of information but these

442
00:15:47,390 --> 00:15:49,130
questions and these challenges are only

443
00:15:49,130 --> 00:15:50,750
pressures that we expect to increase

444
00:15:50,750 --> 00:15:52,730
over time and so what do we need to do

445
00:15:52,730 --> 00:15:55,550
to prepare for this what happens is our

446
00:15:55,550 --> 00:15:58,220
new realities are wobbling as our old

447
00:15:58,220 --> 00:15:59,690
realities are wobbling as new ones

448
00:15:59,690 --> 00:16:02,240
emerge so hope this is that this is the

449
00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:04,250
context in which we started to have this

450
00:16:04,250 --> 00:16:06,199
conversation interfaces demographics

451
00:16:06,199 --> 00:16:08,060
changes in sort of political and

452
00:16:08,060 --> 00:16:10,010
commercial consolidation and pressure in

453
00:16:10,010 --> 00:16:11,959
space so we launched this project

454
00:16:11,959 --> 00:16:14,269
Wikimedia 2030 where we thought no big

455
00:16:14,269 --> 00:16:16,010
deal we'd answer these questions we'd

456
00:16:16,010 --> 00:16:17,540
have a conversation with our community

457
00:16:17,540 --> 00:16:19,310
and as you know having a conversation

458
00:16:19,310 --> 00:16:21,230
with a large distributed open-source

459
00:16:21,230 --> 00:16:23,569
community is pretty easy and you can

460
00:16:23,569 --> 00:16:26,990
achieve consensus really fast I'm just

461
00:16:26,990 --> 00:16:27,640
kidding

462
00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:29,990
so we began this project we launched it

463
00:16:29,990 --> 00:16:31,640
it was Wikimedia 2030 I'm gonna go

464
00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:33,230
through the process bit really quickly

465
00:16:33,230 --> 00:16:35,480
because Wikipedians love this but I know

466
00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:37,699
that's not why you're here the point

467
00:16:37,699 --> 00:16:39,620
being that we spoke to thousands of

468
00:16:39,620 --> 00:16:41,180
Wikimedians around the world in 20

469
00:16:41,180 --> 00:16:42,800
different languages hosted hundreds of

470
00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:45,290
salons interviewed experts did all sorts

471
00:16:45,290 --> 00:16:47,810
of sticky note exercises with the idea

472
00:16:47,810 --> 00:16:49,180
beginning to start to under

473
00:16:49,180 --> 00:16:50,650
and a little bit about what people's

474
00:16:50,650 --> 00:16:53,290
priorities and concerns are we heard

475
00:16:53,290 --> 00:16:54,700
from our community about what was most

476
00:16:54,700 --> 00:16:56,260
important to them

477
00:16:56,260 --> 00:16:59,230
number one knowledge gaps and biases as

478
00:16:59,230 --> 00:17:00,850
you can imagine there are quite a few of

479
00:17:00,850 --> 00:17:02,470
those we can media we tend to think of

480
00:17:02,470 --> 00:17:04,480
it as a mere held up to the world the

481
00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:06,430
biases of the world are the biases of

482
00:17:06,430 --> 00:17:08,619
Wikipedia but that is also the case that

483
00:17:08,619 --> 00:17:10,810
Wikipedia is also just biased right

484
00:17:10,810 --> 00:17:12,609
eighty percent of our editors on average

485
00:17:12,609 --> 00:17:15,069
are male and we have a lot of articles

486
00:17:15,069 --> 00:17:16,750
about Pokemon and battleships and dead

487
00:17:16,750 --> 00:17:18,790
white European philosophers and not so

488
00:17:18,790 --> 00:17:20,460
much about pretty much everything else

489
00:17:20,460 --> 00:17:22,660
community health and ensuring sort of

490
00:17:22,660 --> 00:17:23,920
sustainability and robustness

491
00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:26,410
integration of Education availability

492
00:17:26,410 --> 00:17:29,380
across languages going beyond Wikipedia

493
00:17:29,380 --> 00:17:30,640
all of these are sort of themes that

494
00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:32,590
came up and you can see at the bottom

495
00:17:32,590 --> 00:17:34,420
I'm a little worried about this values I

496
00:17:34,420 --> 00:17:35,560
don't know what that means

497
00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:37,600
um and if you want to know what we

498
00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:39,640
learned we have where Wikipedians we

499
00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:40,960
wrote it all up there are hundreds and

500
00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:42,340
hundreds and hundreds of pages of

501
00:17:42,340 --> 00:17:44,980
reports and data and citations at 20:30

502
00:17:44,980 --> 00:17:48,190
Wikimedia org but just really in brief

503
00:17:48,190 --> 00:17:49,660
what we learned is that Wikimedia does

504
00:17:49,660 --> 00:17:51,040
not serve the whole world and in fact

505
00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:53,530
we're not even close here is some of the

506
00:17:53,530 --> 00:17:56,560
evidence of awareness among the Internet

507
00:17:56,560 --> 00:17:58,210
users so you can see in the United

508
00:17:58,210 --> 00:17:59,920
States and France we're doing great

509
00:17:59,920 --> 00:18:01,870
eighty-four percent eighty seven percent

510
00:18:01,870 --> 00:18:03,610
but there are plenty of places in the

511
00:18:03,610 --> 00:18:06,790
world but have never heard of us I don't

512
00:18:06,790 --> 00:18:08,200
know why is it because we're not

513
00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:10,840
relevant to them we don't answer the

514
00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:12,880
questions that they are looking for we

515
00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:15,010
don't have the content that is important

516
00:18:15,010 --> 00:18:16,930
to their communities I'd hazard a guess

517
00:18:16,930 --> 00:18:21,070
it's all of the above we looked at

518
00:18:21,070 --> 00:18:22,510
traffic by region and as you can see

519
00:18:22,510 --> 00:18:25,780
similar breakdowns we're still a largely

520
00:18:25,780 --> 00:18:30,130
global North project structural

521
00:18:30,130 --> 00:18:31,660
inequalities are preventing us from

522
00:18:31,660 --> 00:18:34,360
achieving our mission these are issues

523
00:18:34,360 --> 00:18:37,000
that we face not just in content but in

524
00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:39,250
terms of access in terms of penetration

525
00:18:39,250 --> 00:18:42,010
in terms of the cost of access these are

526
00:18:42,010 --> 00:18:43,270
challenges that we're going to need to

527
00:18:43,270 --> 00:18:44,620
address if we're ever going to be

528
00:18:44,620 --> 00:18:47,470
successful we need to adapt to changing

529
00:18:47,470 --> 00:18:49,030
knowledge needs as we went out and did

530
00:18:49,030 --> 00:18:50,410
all this research we learned quite

531
00:18:50,410 --> 00:18:52,570
quickly that young people this is my

532
00:18:52,570 --> 00:18:55,390
favorite we interviewed a young woman in

533
00:18:55,390 --> 00:18:57,160
South Africa and we said Wikipedia it's

534
00:18:57,160 --> 00:18:58,420
the free encyclopedia that anyone can

535
00:18:58,420 --> 00:18:59,560
edit have you ever heard of it and she

536
00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:01,760
said what's an encyclopedia

537
00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:03,680
is that a thing where old people go to

538
00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:07,730
look up old information in old books so

539
00:19:07,730 --> 00:19:08,870
there's a question as to whether that

540
00:19:08,870 --> 00:19:11,120
conceptual model even matters to the

541
00:19:11,120 --> 00:19:12,770
people that we're trying to reach it's

542
00:19:12,770 --> 00:19:13,850
not to say that they don't need

543
00:19:13,850 --> 00:19:15,710
knowledge this is a very educated young

544
00:19:15,710 --> 00:19:17,420
woman she just didn't really think an

545
00:19:17,420 --> 00:19:20,270
encyclopedia was relevant to her not

546
00:19:20,270 --> 00:19:21,740
just as the framework with which we

547
00:19:21,740 --> 00:19:23,510
engage with information perhaps a bit

548
00:19:23,510 --> 00:19:26,000
outmoded but the interfaces themselves

549
00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:28,760
might be people use chat in many places

550
00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:30,740
of the world they don't use the search

551
00:19:30,740 --> 00:19:32,510
function in terms of going to their

552
00:19:32,510 --> 00:19:34,340
browser and entering into a search

553
00:19:34,340 --> 00:19:37,010
engine increasingly people are moving

554
00:19:37,010 --> 00:19:39,170
away from institutions into influencers

555
00:19:39,170 --> 00:19:40,910
as a means of seeking and understanding

556
00:19:40,910 --> 00:19:41,930
the world around them

557
00:19:41,930 --> 00:19:43,550
I trust the person who's had a similar

558
00:19:43,550 --> 00:19:45,110
lived experience so I'm going to ask

559
00:19:45,110 --> 00:19:47,120
them my question not this anonymous

560
00:19:47,120 --> 00:19:49,160
institution that I don't understand how

561
00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:50,780
it works or how its produced or whose

562
00:19:50,780 --> 00:19:52,940
interest it has in mind in fact most

563
00:19:52,940 --> 00:19:54,740
people have no idea what the wikimedia

564
00:19:54,740 --> 00:19:56,930
foundation even exists when we talk to

565
00:19:56,930 --> 00:19:58,310
people they think Wikipedia is a project

566
00:19:58,310 --> 00:20:01,550
of google we should leverage new

567
00:20:01,550 --> 00:20:02,840
technology to achieve our mission

568
00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:06,560
already Wikipedia is relies very much on

569
00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:08,870
the human machine interface but it is

570
00:20:08,870 --> 00:20:10,610
clear to us that that is only going to

571
00:20:10,610 --> 00:20:12,800
continue to evolve and so what are the

572
00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:14,450
ways in which we can harness this in

573
00:20:14,450 --> 00:20:16,160
ways that are consistent with our values

574
00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:18,350
I like to think of it as and I'm not

575
00:20:18,350 --> 00:20:19,640
alone in thinking of this as sort of

576
00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:21,680
what is ethical AI or machine learning

577
00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:23,870
how do we think about legibility as a

578
00:20:23,870 --> 00:20:25,970
concept so people understand what the

579
00:20:25,970 --> 00:20:27,740
implications are how do we think of

580
00:20:27,740 --> 00:20:30,350
active consent so that people agree to

581
00:20:30,350 --> 00:20:32,420
what is being done with machines as they

582
00:20:32,420 --> 00:20:33,620
think about how knowledge is being

583
00:20:33,620 --> 00:20:36,110
formed an inclusion to ensure that we

584
00:20:36,110 --> 00:20:37,910
are aware and can address some of the

585
00:20:37,910 --> 00:20:40,340
biases that are inherent in the way that

586
00:20:40,340 --> 00:20:42,170
we train on datasets and build our

587
00:20:42,170 --> 00:20:45,380
algorithms and many people in the world

588
00:20:45,380 --> 00:20:47,000
want to join us but they just don't know

589
00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:49,430
how because a lot of the models that

590
00:20:49,430 --> 00:20:51,050
existed when the web was coming up and

591
00:20:51,050 --> 00:20:52,670
it was all new to us are no longer the

592
00:20:52,670 --> 00:20:54,770
models with which people understand how

593
00:20:54,770 --> 00:20:56,900
to participate I grew up when wikipedia

594
00:20:56,900 --> 00:20:58,970
didn't exist I joined to the web when it

595
00:20:58,970 --> 00:21:00,710
was still just being formed you know it

596
00:21:00,710 --> 00:21:03,530
was obvious to me how to edit a wiki

597
00:21:03,530 --> 00:21:05,300
page because that was the only way you

598
00:21:05,300 --> 00:21:07,400
could edit anything on the web today

599
00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:08,690
that's just not something that many

600
00:21:08,690 --> 00:21:10,220
institutions think of and they don't

601
00:21:10,220 --> 00:21:12,230
necessarily realize that when we say

602
00:21:12,230 --> 00:21:13,250
anyone can edit we

603
00:21:13,250 --> 00:21:14,990
you mean anyone and we want that

604
00:21:14,990 --> 00:21:17,330
participation so these are the five

605
00:21:17,330 --> 00:21:18,890
themes that emerge healthy inclusive

606
00:21:18,890 --> 00:21:21,140
communities has to be welcoming if we

607
00:21:21,140 --> 00:21:23,030
want at all people to participate the

608
00:21:23,030 --> 00:21:25,100
Augmented age advancing with technology

609
00:21:25,100 --> 00:21:27,350
a truly global movement it's not enough

610
00:21:27,350 --> 00:21:28,550
for just the Europeans and the Americans

611
00:21:28,550 --> 00:21:30,920
to care about wikimedia the most

612
00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:33,290
respected source of knowledge that's an

613
00:21:33,290 --> 00:21:35,180
ambition engaging the knowledge

614
00:21:35,180 --> 00:21:37,430
ecosystem right so how do we really

615
00:21:37,430 --> 00:21:39,260
truly participate as part of a broader

616
00:21:39,260 --> 00:21:42,170
open community and that is how we got to

617
00:21:42,170 --> 00:21:43,610
a direction for our future which I'm

618
00:21:43,610 --> 00:21:44,690
running out of time so I'll go through

619
00:21:44,690 --> 00:21:46,910
quite quickly this is a little

620
00:21:46,910 --> 00:21:48,110
controversial the essential

621
00:21:48,110 --> 00:21:50,060
infrastructure of the ecosystem of open

622
00:21:50,060 --> 00:21:51,560
knowledge we're very collaborative and

623
00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:52,850
so people don't like being sort of the

624
00:21:52,850 --> 00:21:55,610
superlative of anything but the idea

625
00:21:55,610 --> 00:21:57,410
being that we are embedded within the

626
00:21:57,410 --> 00:21:59,450
open knowledge ecosystem thinking of

627
00:21:59,450 --> 00:22:00,770
ourselves as going beyond the

628
00:22:00,770 --> 00:22:02,420
Encyclopedia to recognize that the

629
00:22:02,420 --> 00:22:04,340
platform structures and resources that

630
00:22:04,340 --> 00:22:06,410
we have are critical to sustaining that

631
00:22:06,410 --> 00:22:08,750
open knowledge ecosystem for example is

632
00:22:08,750 --> 00:22:10,510
the largest reuse er of Creative Commons

633
00:22:10,510 --> 00:22:12,830
licenses this is something that helps

634
00:22:12,830 --> 00:22:14,810
sustain what open licensing actually

635
00:22:14,810 --> 00:22:17,150
looks like anyone who shares our vision

636
00:22:17,150 --> 00:22:19,550
will be able to join us and we boiled

637
00:22:19,550 --> 00:22:21,260
that down in the concepts of service and

638
00:22:21,260 --> 00:22:24,020
equity knowledge is a service it's a

639
00:22:24,020 --> 00:22:25,820
little Silicon Valley asks you know

640
00:22:25,820 --> 00:22:27,470
software as a service platforms as a

641
00:22:27,470 --> 00:22:29,000
service but we really like to embrace

642
00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:31,520
the service component of it providing a

643
00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:33,650
service to the world how do we evolve

644
00:22:33,650 --> 00:22:35,690
our underlying infrastructure so that

645
00:22:35,690 --> 00:22:37,760
our platform is more flexible and allows

646
00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:39,470
more people to build things on top of it

647
00:22:39,470 --> 00:22:41,720
but also embraces new experiences

648
00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:44,330
interfaces and devices allows period

649
00:22:44,330 --> 00:22:45,590
people to query and engage with

650
00:22:45,590 --> 00:22:47,480
information on the in the Wikimedia

651
00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:50,180
ecosystem in new ways building tools for

652
00:22:50,180 --> 00:22:52,430
ourselves our allies and our partners so

653
00:22:52,430 --> 00:22:54,770
that we are not just a good steward of

654
00:22:54,770 --> 00:22:56,570
the information that we have but we help

655
00:22:56,570 --> 00:22:58,370
and engage other institutions in the way

656
00:22:58,370 --> 00:23:00,650
that they open their information and

657
00:23:00,650 --> 00:23:03,290
enabling new forms of knowledge not just

658
00:23:03,290 --> 00:23:05,420
text but perhaps thinking about how do

659
00:23:05,420 --> 00:23:07,700
we capture oral histories how do we

660
00:23:07,700 --> 00:23:09,500
think about welcoming rich media

661
00:23:09,500 --> 00:23:14,560
experiences into our projects an equity

662
00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:18,410
equity is important to us how do we

663
00:23:18,410 --> 00:23:19,700
think about the communities that are

664
00:23:19,700 --> 00:23:21,470
left out the knowledge that hasn't been

665
00:23:21,470 --> 00:23:23,420
brought into the discourse how do we

666
00:23:23,420 --> 00:23:25,400
welcome people from every background not

667
00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:26,669
just those who are privileged to know

668
00:23:26,669 --> 00:23:28,619
to have high bandwidth connections and

669
00:23:28,619 --> 00:23:31,139
expensive laptop devices how do we

670
00:23:31,139 --> 00:23:32,369
ensure that we have a friendly and

671
00:23:32,369 --> 00:23:34,619
welcoming space so that we address that

672
00:23:34,619 --> 00:23:38,149
80/20 ratio these are serious challenges

673
00:23:38,149 --> 00:23:40,889
not just the 80/20 ratio there are many

674
00:23:40,889 --> 00:23:43,019
people left out by that binary how do we

675
00:23:43,019 --> 00:23:44,940
break down the barriers to accessing and

676
00:23:44,940 --> 00:23:47,159
sharing and knowledge these are the

677
00:23:47,159 --> 00:23:48,539
questions that I think we will be

678
00:23:48,539 --> 00:23:50,249
confronting over the course of the next

679
00:23:50,249 --> 00:23:53,039
15 years we say that these are the

680
00:23:53,039 --> 00:23:54,389
things that we need to focus on because

681
00:23:54,389 --> 00:23:56,549
we believe that if we do not focus on

682
00:23:56,549 --> 00:23:58,859
these things it is true that Wikipedia

683
00:23:58,859 --> 00:24:01,169
will exist in 15 years

684
00:24:01,169 --> 00:24:03,119
will still be an encyclopedia you can

685
00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:04,379
always leave an encyclopedia on a

686
00:24:04,379 --> 00:24:06,480
bookshelf but if you just leave it on a

687
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:08,100
bookshelf it will gather dust

688
00:24:08,100 --> 00:24:09,960
we want to make sure that we're much

689
00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:12,269
more than existing in 20 years or 15

690
00:24:12,269 --> 00:24:14,070
years we want to make sure that we're a

691
00:24:14,070 --> 00:24:15,600
place in which everyone can participate

692
00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:18,539
in which we are embedded in the spirit

693
00:24:18,539 --> 00:24:21,059
of learning and exploration and

694
00:24:21,059 --> 00:24:24,330
curiosity and that we are somebody that

695
00:24:24,330 --> 00:24:26,909
can help increase the amount of

696
00:24:26,909 --> 00:24:28,499
information that is available in the

697
00:24:28,499 --> 00:24:30,779
world that we can be a leader and a

698
00:24:30,779 --> 00:24:33,029
partner in opening information so that

699
00:24:33,029 --> 00:24:35,850
it is available to all so to answer the

700
00:24:35,850 --> 00:24:38,129
question yes I'm bullish and now I would

701
00:24:38,129 --> 00:24:40,710
love to go to the questions so I can get

702
00:24:40,710 --> 00:24:42,659
sit in the hot seat

703
00:24:42,659 --> 00:24:44,220
and hear what it is y'all have to say

704
00:24:44,220 --> 00:24:45,440
thank you

705
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:54,990
[Applause]

706
00:24:54,990 --> 00:24:57,630
so thank you I'm yokai benkler I teach

707
00:24:57,630 --> 00:24:59,700
here and I'm gonna start the

708
00:24:59,700 --> 00:25:08,070
conversation with you I have to say one

709
00:25:08,070 --> 00:25:11,370
thing that struck me about your talk was

710
00:25:11,370 --> 00:25:16,230
the confidence no okay I first wrote

711
00:25:16,230 --> 00:25:17,730
about Wikipedia when it was six months

712
00:25:17,730 --> 00:25:18,180
old

713
00:25:18,180 --> 00:25:21,000
mhm I spoke at the 5th anniversary I

714
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:27,600
spoke at the 10th anniversary and what

715
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:31,770
happened even by the 10th was still is

716
00:25:31,770 --> 00:25:34,470
this real

717
00:25:34,470 --> 00:25:36,930
how're we doing it we're losing editors

718
00:25:36,930 --> 00:25:40,410
are we getting enough editors there's a

719
00:25:40,410 --> 00:25:42,840
confidence here that that's a solved

720
00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:47,100
problem you're gonna be around and a lot

721
00:25:47,100 --> 00:25:50,460
of what I'm seeing is a out of a sense

722
00:25:50,460 --> 00:25:53,880
of confidence an engagement with a world

723
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:57,960
that is not necessarily friendly so let

724
00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:00,860
me sort of start bye-bye to me Wikipedia

725
00:26:00,860 --> 00:26:04,260
was always interesting as a different

726
00:26:04,260 --> 00:26:08,120
model of organizing ourselves of

727
00:26:08,120 --> 00:26:11,420
producing things

728
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:17,490
the one thing that to me was missing

729
00:26:17,490 --> 00:26:24,480
from this ambitious generous model what

730
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:27,230
you're describing was a sense of

731
00:26:27,230 --> 00:26:30,750
political and ideological education so

732
00:26:30,750 --> 00:26:33,750
you talked about the communities around

733
00:26:33,750 --> 00:26:36,690
the world who participated in open

734
00:26:36,690 --> 00:26:39,300
knowledge politics as it were but

735
00:26:39,300 --> 00:26:41,100
there's a real tension as we know from a

736
00:26:41,100 --> 00:26:44,820
Wikipedia shutdown after around

737
00:26:44,820 --> 00:26:48,750
sopa/pipa or the protesting where do you

738
00:26:48,750 --> 00:26:51,360
see in these conversations you had

739
00:26:51,360 --> 00:26:54,540
with the Wikipedians around the future

740
00:26:54,540 --> 00:26:57,090
this tension between knowing that you

741
00:26:57,090 --> 00:26:59,400
occupy a world in which there's a small

742
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:01,020
number of companies trying to structure

743
00:27:01,020 --> 00:27:03,150
the world in a certain way and that

744
00:27:03,150 --> 00:27:07,049
politics matter and this embrace of the

745
00:27:07,049 --> 00:27:09,240
idea that Wikipedia is the only platform

746
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:10,650
where people come and they don't become

747
00:27:10,650 --> 00:27:12,390
more extreme they become more reasonable

748
00:27:12,390 --> 00:27:14,400
and the tension between those two you

749
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:17,179
think of yourself as a political

750
00:27:17,179 --> 00:27:20,760
organization are you the Lorax are you

751
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:24,690
speaking for the trees I just okay yeah

752
00:27:24,690 --> 00:27:28,740
it's so on so I think that is a can you

753
00:27:28,740 --> 00:27:29,460
hear me in the back

754
00:27:29,460 --> 00:27:32,070
okay I think that is an excellent

755
00:27:32,070 --> 00:27:33,750
question and this is actually one of the

756
00:27:33,750 --> 00:27:35,460
most controversial things that came out

757
00:27:35,460 --> 00:27:38,760
of the direction the Nala the strategic

758
00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:39,929
direction that we came up with around

759
00:27:39,929 --> 00:27:42,540
service and equity is there was a real

760
00:27:42,540 --> 00:27:44,700
desire in certain parts of our community

761
00:27:44,700 --> 00:27:47,520
to embrace advocacy for the world in

762
00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:49,710
which we want to exist and think about

763
00:27:49,710 --> 00:27:51,900
how we could be more of an advocacy

764
00:27:51,900 --> 00:27:53,850
oriented organization and I want to be

765
00:27:53,850 --> 00:27:56,610
careful about the word political because

766
00:27:56,610 --> 00:27:58,500
I want the way that I think about this

767
00:27:58,500 --> 00:28:01,410
is free knowledge is inherently radical

768
00:28:01,410 --> 00:28:04,830
right the idea that we are here to we

769
00:28:04,830 --> 00:28:07,290
exist to liberate information perhaps

770
00:28:07,290 --> 00:28:09,570
not in the most dramatic of ways

771
00:28:09,570 --> 00:28:11,309
Wikipedians are very rule-abiding but

772
00:28:11,309 --> 00:28:12,960
that is ultimately what we're trying to

773
00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:15,570
do is something that flies in the face

774
00:28:15,570 --> 00:28:18,450
of thousands of years of human history

775
00:28:18,450 --> 00:28:22,470
that has really seen literal empires

776
00:28:22,470 --> 00:28:26,340
and great wealth built off of the

777
00:28:26,340 --> 00:28:29,040
accommodation or sorry the accumulation

778
00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:33,090
and control of information and so what

779
00:28:33,090 --> 00:28:34,620
that means is that our mission in and of

780
00:28:34,620 --> 00:28:36,600
itself is radical and when we run into

781
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:38,940
the realities that are commercial or

782
00:28:38,940 --> 00:28:41,400
political we have to recognize that our

783
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:43,620
mission can be political it does not

784
00:28:43,620 --> 00:28:45,210
mean that we are partisan and I think

785
00:28:45,210 --> 00:28:46,530
that that is something that is a

786
00:28:46,530 --> 00:28:48,360
struggle that we will have to engage

787
00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:50,160
with over the course of the years to

788
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:52,559
come the web that we were created in was

789
00:28:52,559 --> 00:28:54,809
a very different sort of felt of like a

790
00:28:54,809 --> 00:28:55,890
very different environment I don't

791
00:28:55,890 --> 00:28:57,210
actually want to sort of buy into the

792
00:28:57,210 --> 00:28:59,040
night naivete that it was but it felt

793
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:00,360
like a different environment and

794
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:02,250
certainly one in which there was far

795
00:29:02,250 --> 00:29:03,730
less scrutiny as

796
00:29:03,730 --> 00:29:05,920
the motives and sort of the implications

797
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:08,200
for the work that we did today I think

798
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:09,400
that we have to contend with the fact

799
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:11,080
that the information and the mission

800
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:13,480
that we seek to serve is something that

801
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:15,460
is going to be controversial in places

802
00:29:15,460 --> 00:29:17,380
and we have to decide how much do we

803
00:29:17,380 --> 00:29:19,330
want to step into that controversy in

804
00:29:19,330 --> 00:29:21,550
order to defend the underlying

805
00:29:21,550 --> 00:29:24,370
circumstances that are necessary for our

806
00:29:24,370 --> 00:29:26,890
mission to actually be achievable and I

807
00:29:26,890 --> 00:29:28,420
believe that you know there's an

808
00:29:28,420 --> 00:29:29,740
expression in wicked media that you need

809
00:29:29,740 --> 00:29:33,040
to be bold revert to be bold I believe

810
00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:34,690
that we need to be bold on this one I

811
00:29:34,690 --> 00:29:36,490
think we also do need to be careful

812
00:29:36,490 --> 00:29:38,910
though that we are not taking up the

813
00:29:38,910 --> 00:29:43,300
credibility and trust and power that the

814
00:29:43,300 --> 00:29:45,190
institution has been imbued with through

815
00:29:45,190 --> 00:29:47,590
the participation of so many people over

816
00:29:47,590 --> 00:29:49,510
time and using it in a way that is

817
00:29:49,510 --> 00:29:53,590
reckless so what is reckless mm-hmm I

818
00:29:53,590 --> 00:30:00,190
think reckless is is being there has

819
00:30:00,190 --> 00:30:01,990
been a temptation over the course of the

820
00:30:01,990 --> 00:30:03,640
past few months at least within the

821
00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:05,380
Wikimedia foundation some parts of our

822
00:30:05,380 --> 00:30:07,480
communities to respond to what feels

823
00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:10,750
like an unprecedented public discourse

824
00:30:10,750 --> 00:30:15,280
globally and the I believe that

825
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:17,260
responding in a way that responds to

826
00:30:17,260 --> 00:30:19,740
that discourse could be quite reckless

827
00:30:19,740 --> 00:30:22,060
responding in a way that advances a

828
00:30:22,060 --> 00:30:24,070
vision of the way that we would like to

829
00:30:24,070 --> 00:30:26,470
see the world and investing in that

830
00:30:26,470 --> 00:30:28,300
vision in that collaboration in that

831
00:30:28,300 --> 00:30:30,640
community building in that exchange in

832
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:34,000
inclusion in diversity of content that

833
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:38,950
is not reckless that is an obligation to

834
00:30:38,950 --> 00:30:41,560
our mission that is setting a vision for

835
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:43,470
the world in which we want to live and

836
00:30:43,470 --> 00:30:48,780
that allows us to hold the banner for an

837
00:30:48,780 --> 00:30:51,340
alternative to the discourse in which we

838
00:30:51,340 --> 00:30:53,320
currently are see the rest of the world

839
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:55,990
spitting into so let me let me then push

840
00:30:55,990 --> 00:30:59,100
you in a slightly in a related but but

841
00:30:59,100 --> 00:31:03,520
narrower perhaps crystallized I hope

842
00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:10,110
crystallizing you talked about DBpedia

843
00:31:10,110 --> 00:31:13,900
you talked about the various ways in

844
00:31:13,900 --> 00:31:15,720
which

845
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:20,280
an Alexa will deliver so there's this

846
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:24,480
tension between on one hand maintaining

847
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:27,690
open data and open knowledge structures

848
00:31:27,690 --> 00:31:30,230
no matter who is trying to wrap them

849
00:31:30,230 --> 00:31:34,740
with the sense of growing concentration

850
00:31:34,740 --> 00:31:36,870
of a small number of actors and finding

851
00:31:36,870 --> 00:31:38,100
yourself understood

852
00:31:38,100 --> 00:31:40,820
oh isn't Wikipedia project of Google's

853
00:31:40,820 --> 00:31:45,210
so that's a political will forget the

854
00:31:45,210 --> 00:31:47,280
word political if it mixes us with party

855
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:49,800
that's a question of institutions on top

856
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:50,610
mm-hmm

857
00:31:50,610 --> 00:31:54,780
have you had a conversation about the

858
00:31:54,780 --> 00:31:59,280
extent to which you need to think

859
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:02,760
differently about licensing about

860
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:05,970
control in order to preserve the

861
00:32:05,970 --> 00:32:08,370
knowledge Commons rather than allowing

862
00:32:08,370 --> 00:32:14,520
for Wikipedia to cede private clubs and

863
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:17,460
and leverage that into something that

864
00:32:17,460 --> 00:32:20,310
essentially makes Wikipedia into a

865
00:32:20,310 --> 00:32:22,440
commodity instead of a way of being

866
00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:24,930
human I think that you have touched on

867
00:32:24,930 --> 00:32:27,090
what is one of the two existential

868
00:32:27,090 --> 00:32:28,680
debates that emerge from our strategic

869
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:31,080
discussions and the first to just[?]
870
00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:32,540
throw it out there is the tension between

871
00:32:32,540 --> 00:32:35,310
participation and quality which we can

872
00:32:35,310 --> 00:32:38,010
get into and then the second which is

873
00:32:38,010 --> 00:32:40,350
the tension between the mission says

874
00:32:40,350 --> 00:32:41,700
that all information should be available

875
00:32:41,700 --> 00:32:43,980
to all and therefore we don't care who

876
00:32:43,980 --> 00:32:47,100
distributes it and actually for us to

877
00:32:47,100 --> 00:32:50,550
maintain the integrity of the model that

878
00:32:50,550 --> 00:32:52,110
information needs to be something that

879
00:32:52,110 --> 00:32:54,480
is associated with the Wikimedia

880
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:58,200
ecosystem I come down on the side of the

881
00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:00,840
ladder but that is controversial many in

882
00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:03,060
our community say everyone should be

883
00:33:03,060 --> 00:33:04,620
able to take it and grab it and bring it

884
00:33:04,620 --> 00:33:06,360
to the world and it doesn't matter who

885
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:07,950
intermediates us as long as they're

886
00:33:07,950 --> 00:33:11,040
distributing it my personal belief and

887
00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:14,700
again there is a tension here it's not

888
00:33:14,700 --> 00:33:16,200
this is not shared while there's no

889
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:19,170
consensus as it were is that if you

890
00:33:19,170 --> 00:33:21,780
break the sort of evidentiary chain

891
00:33:21,780 --> 00:33:24,780
within the ecosystem of the knowledge

892
00:33:24,780 --> 00:33:26,610
structure that Wikipedia has built that

893
00:33:26,610 --> 00:33:28,160
it does rely on citation

894
00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:31,040
it does rely on this graph we are no

895
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:34,160
good we are no better than almost any

896
00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:36,350
other resource of information I thought

897
00:33:36,350 --> 00:33:37,280
about this somebody asked me the other

898
00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:38,900
day is just the fact that Wikipedia has

899
00:33:38,900 --> 00:33:42,320
become more trusted over time has that

900
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:44,570
led to more trust being imbued in other

901
00:33:44,570 --> 00:33:47,450
sources of online information AKA are

902
00:33:47,450 --> 00:33:49,850
you responsible for the current state in

903
00:33:49,850 --> 00:33:51,260
which we find ourselves where everyone

904
00:33:51,260 --> 00:33:52,220
believes everything they read on the

905
00:33:52,220 --> 00:33:56,150
Internet I said oh god I hope not but I

906
00:33:56,150 --> 00:33:57,890
think this speaks to your point which is

907
00:33:57,890 --> 00:34:00,590
I I do believe that if you break that

908
00:34:00,590 --> 00:34:05,810
sort of citation layer a lot of the

909
00:34:05,810 --> 00:34:08,659
value that Wikipedia has created in

910
00:34:08,659 --> 00:34:11,090
terms of the integrity of the process is

911
00:34:11,090 --> 00:34:14,630
lost but the question of licensing hoo

912
00:34:14,630 --> 00:34:16,070
that's a controversial one it has come

913
00:34:16,070 --> 00:34:18,440
up recently it's come up in quiet rooms

914
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:19,639
behind closed doors

915
00:34:19,639 --> 00:34:21,260
I don't know that guess now I'm bringing

916
00:34:21,260 --> 00:34:26,540
this is an open forum where yeah we're I

917
00:34:26,540 --> 00:34:29,590
am I

918
00:34:29,590 --> 00:34:31,639
there are some things on the record and

919
00:34:31,639 --> 00:34:32,900
there are some things up this was on do

920
00:34:32,900 --> 00:34:34,668
I put it on there um this is a question

921
00:34:34,668 --> 00:34:37,130
that has come up recently is do we need

922
00:34:37,130 --> 00:34:39,290
to think about the way in which we maybe

923
00:34:39,290 --> 00:34:40,790
it's not just maybe it's not change our

924
00:34:40,790 --> 00:34:42,020
licensing that would be trying to say

925
00:34:42,020 --> 00:34:44,030
difficult as I'm sure you know but do we

926
00:34:44,030 --> 00:34:44,989
need to think about the way that we

927
00:34:44,989 --> 00:34:47,960
enforce our licensing differently

928
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:49,668
and do we need to be a little bit more

929
00:34:49,668 --> 00:34:51,230
aggressive about that in a way that

930
00:34:51,230 --> 00:34:53,870
stands not just for I think Wikimedia

931
00:34:53,870 --> 00:34:56,449
but stands for the Commons and becomes a

932
00:34:56,449 --> 00:34:58,490
advocate on behalf of the Commons as a

933
00:34:58,490 --> 00:35:00,380
whole because I think any one of you

934
00:35:00,380 --> 00:35:03,080
with a simple insert search name here

935
00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:06,110
search will find is that the attribution

936
00:35:06,110 --> 00:35:09,640
in the Commons and is something that is

937
00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:12,920
aspirational in actual application quite

938
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:16,280
often so that actually that that I think

939
00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:19,100
is critical because this question of the

940
00:35:19,100 --> 00:35:24,320
extent to which you see yourself as back

941
00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:25,820
to the question of the Lorax for the

942
00:35:25,820 --> 00:35:31,610
Commons as protecting institutionally

943
00:35:31,610 --> 00:35:34,030
and politically where necessary as

944
00:35:34,030 --> 00:35:38,180
telling the story and educating the idea

945
00:35:38,180 --> 00:35:40,800
again to me what was so

946
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:43,920
exhilarating for so many years was the

947
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:46,610
idea that you had a functionally

948
00:35:46,610 --> 00:35:50,460
effective community doing something that

949
00:35:50,460 --> 00:35:52,680
in theory shouldn't work you actually

950
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:55,080
have at least one user who on their talk

951
00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:57,390
page takes responsibility so you should

952
00:35:57,390 --> 00:36:04,530
know but it wasn't it was in practice it

953
00:36:04,530 --> 00:36:06,450
moves it shouldn't move but it

954
00:36:06,450 --> 00:36:09,270
nonetheless and yet it moves and so the

955
00:36:09,270 --> 00:36:13,230
question is and it's tied very

956
00:36:13,230 --> 00:36:16,490
specifically to questions of attribution

957
00:36:16,490 --> 00:36:21,720
questions of the shape of through the

958
00:36:21,720 --> 00:36:23,250
attribution clicking through to the

959
00:36:23,250 --> 00:36:25,290
framework the question of actually

960
00:36:25,290 --> 00:36:29,580
educating publicly not just about these

961
00:36:29,580 --> 00:36:33,750
values of equity sure you can do them

962
00:36:33,750 --> 00:36:36,290
internally as were all of the

963
00:36:36,290 --> 00:36:38,460
conversations that were so central at

964
00:36:38,460 --> 00:36:41,370
the 10th anniversary around gender

965
00:36:41,370 --> 00:36:44,790
imbalances but at the same time the

966
00:36:44,790 --> 00:36:46,020
question is to what extent you can

967
00:36:46,020 --> 00:36:49,980
actually distribute the understanding of

968
00:36:49,980 --> 00:36:52,470
participatory self governance and equity

969
00:36:52,470 --> 00:36:55,140
as things that actually work so that

970
00:36:55,140 --> 00:36:57,210
it's not just about Wikipedia it's about

971
00:36:57,210 --> 00:37:00,360
this is a way of doing things and and is

972
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:01,800
that within your framework

973
00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:03,570
take your process the participatory

974
00:37:03,570 --> 00:37:05,070
process of how to think about this and

975
00:37:05,070 --> 00:37:07,110
turn it into a training program for

976
00:37:07,110 --> 00:37:09,210
municipalities for how to get citizens

977
00:37:09,210 --> 00:37:12,810
to is that part of the self imagination

978
00:37:12,810 --> 00:37:17,700
oh I wish we had those resources uh no I

979
00:37:17,700 --> 00:37:19,020
mean I think that they I think that

980
00:37:19,020 --> 00:37:22,170
that's a phenomenally good question one

981
00:37:22,170 --> 00:37:23,880
of my great frustrations is that over

982
00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:25,380
the years and I think there's a tension

983
00:37:25,380 --> 00:37:26,790
here I'll say my great frustration is

984
00:37:26,790 --> 00:37:28,770
that over the years we withdrew into

985
00:37:28,770 --> 00:37:32,970
ourselves as a community and I when I

986
00:37:32,970 --> 00:37:34,260
joined to the Wikimedia Foundation it

987
00:37:34,260 --> 00:37:35,520
felt like we were afraid of our own

988
00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:36,720
power

989
00:37:36,720 --> 00:37:38,100
when I joined people kept saying oh

990
00:37:38,100 --> 00:37:40,440
whether this of that right we're the you

991
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:42,090
know using other people's models to

992
00:37:42,090 --> 00:37:43,410
refer back to what we were and I was

993
00:37:43,410 --> 00:37:44,700
like come on guys this is the project

994
00:37:44,700 --> 00:37:46,530
that's launched a thousand dissertations

995
00:37:46,530 --> 00:37:48,750
probably more right we are our own model

996
00:37:48,750 --> 00:37:50,190
and it is important for us to embrace

997
00:37:50,190 --> 00:37:51,780
the fact that not only are we our own

998
00:37:51,780 --> 00:37:53,940
model we're something that works now I

999
00:37:53,940 --> 00:37:54,830
reuse the reason I

1000
00:37:54,830 --> 00:37:56,150
say that I say that with some hesitation

1001
00:37:56,150 --> 00:37:57,860
is because I also think that that

1002
00:37:57,860 --> 00:37:59,570
withdrawal into ourselves is something

1003
00:37:59,570 --> 00:38:03,520
that allowed our values to really become

1004
00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:06,290
solidified and instilled in a meaningful

1005
00:38:06,290 --> 00:38:08,210
way and those are the values of openness

1006
00:38:08,210 --> 00:38:12,800
and transparency and the like and and I

1007
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:14,780
think that that is critical perhaps we have

1008
00:38:14,780 --> 00:38:15,950
been a little bit more open to the world

1009
00:38:15,950 --> 00:38:16,820
those would have been a little bit more

1010
00:38:16,820 --> 00:38:19,250
malleable at earlier points before we

1011
00:38:19,250 --> 00:38:20,840
were all quite as well-established but

1012
00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:23,680
really getting back to your question I

1013
00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:25,730
think it's an essential I think it's

1014
00:38:25,730 --> 00:38:27,800
an imperative for us to have a

1015
00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:29,510
stronger voice at this particular period

1016
00:38:29,510 --> 00:38:31,070
of time and that to me gets the question

1017
00:38:31,070 --> 00:38:32,750
as well around what is recklessness I

1018
00:38:32,750 --> 00:38:35,810
think that what Wikipedia can offer is a

1019
00:38:35,810 --> 00:38:37,820
powerful alternative to the discourse

1020
00:38:37,820 --> 00:38:39,770
that we find ourselves in today you know

1021
00:38:39,770 --> 00:38:41,690
I'm reminded about through the fake news

1022
00:38:41,690 --> 00:38:43,370
debate what everybody you know we had

1023
00:38:43,370 --> 00:38:44,930
all these people come to us after the

1024
00:38:44,930 --> 00:38:47,300
election this year and people say well

1025
00:38:47,300 --> 00:38:48,770
how does Wikipedia deal with fake news

1026
00:38:48,770 --> 00:38:50,030
if you changed your way of dealing with

1027
00:38:50,030 --> 00:38:51,470
this we said no this is what we've been

1028
00:38:51,470 --> 00:38:53,720
doing for 16 years I mean yes we've

1029
00:38:53,720 --> 00:38:55,790
evolved over time but this is not a new

1030
00:38:55,790 --> 00:38:58,340
framework for us in fact we provide an

1031
00:38:58,340 --> 00:39:00,260
example of an infrastructure of a

1032
00:39:00,260 --> 00:39:02,390
governance mechanism that for all of its

1033
00:39:02,390 --> 00:39:04,100
flaws and I really do want to emphasize

1034
00:39:04,100 --> 00:39:06,710
there are flaws right 17% of the

1035
00:39:06,710 --> 00:39:08,180
biographies on English Wikipedia are

1036
00:39:08,180 --> 00:39:10,460
about women that's a problem there are

1037
00:39:10,460 --> 00:39:12,020
flaws with representation there are

1038
00:39:12,020 --> 00:39:13,400
flaws with participation there are

1039
00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:15,620
certainly errors within Wikimedia I'd be

1040
00:39:15,620 --> 00:39:17,540
the first person to say this it largely

1041
00:39:17,540 --> 00:39:19,370
works and it provides a compelling

1042
00:39:19,370 --> 00:39:20,930
alternative for how we might think about

1043
00:39:20,930 --> 00:39:24,140
governance as you said far beyond just a

1044
00:39:24,140 --> 00:39:27,500
not just a website the largest free

1045
00:39:27,500 --> 00:39:30,200
knowledge project in the world so I

1046
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:31,700
think people are going to want to come

1047
00:39:31,700 --> 00:39:34,310
in I want to try to do one more question

1048
00:39:34,310 --> 00:39:36,350
and I apologize to people when I'll

1049
00:39:36,350 --> 00:39:38,600
sneak out I just have to go teach but

1050
00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:43,400
but I want to make sure that we just do

1051
00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:45,890
one more step about pure production more

1052
00:39:45,890 --> 00:39:50,320
generally and Wikipedia really being

1053
00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:53,510
flagship and the question is where's the

1054
00:39:53,510 --> 00:39:59,900
fleet in other words central to the idea

1055
00:39:59,900 --> 00:40:03,650
of free of free software in its original

1056
00:40:03,650 --> 00:40:07,000
free software

1057
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:09,730
of Wikipedia as the flagship of peer

1058
00:40:09,730 --> 00:40:11,110
production is the idea that there's a

1059
00:40:11,110 --> 00:40:15,130
the possibility of building an

1060
00:40:15,130 --> 00:40:20,050
alternative way of working together and

1061
00:40:20,050 --> 00:40:21,820
particularly when we're in this moment

1062
00:40:21,820 --> 00:40:23,290
where we understand them working

1063
00:40:23,290 --> 00:40:25,240
together it's problematic high

1064
00:40:25,240 --> 00:40:28,930
inequality tension between labor and

1065
00:40:28,930 --> 00:40:30,280
capital

1066
00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:35,230
it's an idea and I guess it has these

1067
00:40:35,230 --> 00:40:37,240
two components one is the extent which

1068
00:40:37,240 --> 00:40:39,160
is much more directly tied to what you

1069
00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:41,110
were talking about which is providing

1070
00:40:41,110 --> 00:40:46,990
open equitable global infrastructure for

1071
00:40:46,990 --> 00:40:50,650
a critical knowledge utility and the

1072
00:40:50,650 --> 00:40:52,630
second is as the question of model for

1073
00:40:52,630 --> 00:40:54,370
peer production so the so these are the

1074
00:40:54,370 --> 00:40:56,610
two questions the one up to what extent

1075
00:40:56,610 --> 00:41:01,330
in your conversations that plays a role

1076
00:41:01,330 --> 00:41:03,550
the notion that you're essentially the

1077
00:41:03,550 --> 00:41:05,890
flagship of a way of doing things and

1078
00:41:05,890 --> 00:41:09,250
who are your allies in this and the

1079
00:41:09,250 --> 00:41:13,480
question and and the second is are you

1080
00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:15,730
thinking strategically about what other

1081
00:41:15,730 --> 00:41:18,160
places in infrastructure will become

1082
00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:21,060
bottlenecks that you could go in so

1083
00:41:21,060 --> 00:41:23,620
actually there was a too much to complex

1084
00:41:23,620 --> 00:41:25,150
questions let me just focus on the

1085
00:41:25,150 --> 00:41:26,950
second one because because the first one

1086
00:41:26,950 --> 00:41:29,890
is is too much my obsession and not

1087
00:41:29,890 --> 00:41:38,770
enough central to yours sorry about that data is becoming

1088
00:41:38,770 --> 00:41:41,650
a critical infrastructure for everything

1089
00:41:41,650 --> 00:41:46,150
from automation to platforms to

1090
00:41:46,150 --> 00:41:49,330
municipal government and you start by

1091
00:41:49,330 --> 00:41:54,820
talking about Wikidata but the question

1092
00:41:54,820 --> 00:41:56,350
is to what extent is it in your

1093
00:41:56,350 --> 00:41:58,300
framework to really think about a

1094
00:41:58,300 --> 00:42:01,030
situation where if you're in Europe and

1095
00:42:01,030 --> 00:42:02,260
people have a right to their own

1096
00:42:02,260 --> 00:42:04,930
Facebook data they collect that data and

1097
00:42:04,930 --> 00:42:06,430
deposit it in something that actually

1098
00:42:06,430 --> 00:42:10,870
provides the personal data Commons on

1099
00:42:10,870 --> 00:42:14,650
which open infrastructure can work out

1100
00:42:14,650 --> 00:42:16,270
is that part of the stories it's not

1101
00:42:16,270 --> 00:42:18,220
part of sorry so perhaps not that exact

1102
00:42:18,220 --> 00:42:20,290
example but I do think that this is part

1103
00:42:20,290 --> 00:42:20,500
of the

1104
00:42:20,500 --> 00:42:21,580
story and that's when I think of

1105
00:42:21,580 --> 00:42:23,080
knowledge as a service and what are the

1106
00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:24,670
tools and infrastructure that we can

1107
00:42:24,670 --> 00:42:26,920
offer people know us as Wikipedia but

1108
00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:28,330
when you think about it we also run

1109
00:42:28,330 --> 00:42:30,880
MediaWiki and we run Wikibase which is

1110
00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:33,820
the open structured data repository that

1111
00:42:33,820 --> 00:42:36,030
runs Wikidata and I can absolutely

1112
00:42:36,030 --> 00:42:38,830
envision a world in which Wikibase is a

1113
00:42:38,830 --> 00:42:41,290
dominant database for structured

1114
00:42:41,290 --> 00:42:44,140
information the great example of why

1115
00:42:44,140 --> 00:42:47,500
this would matter is we talk we do these

1116
00:42:47,500 --> 00:42:49,330
edit-a-thons on a regular basis and this

1117
00:42:49,330 --> 00:42:52,990
year for Black History Month the I think

1118
00:42:52,990 --> 00:42:54,310
was this year the National Portrait

1119
00:42:54,310 --> 00:42:56,350
Gallery and you know Smithsonian decided

1120
00:42:56,350 --> 00:42:57,670
that they wanted to do an edit-a-thon on

1121
00:42:57,670 --> 00:42:59,260
black artists and when they went into

1122
00:42:59,260 --> 00:43:00,850
their catalog they realized they had no

1123
00:43:00,850 --> 00:43:02,320
way of determining which of the artists

1124
00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:03,490
in their collection were about -

1125
00:43:03,490 --> 00:43:06,190
American descent none they just didn't

1126
00:43:06,190 --> 00:43:09,130
have that data but Wikidata did and so

1127
00:43:09,130 --> 00:43:11,560
they were able to use wiki data to pull

1128
00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:13,600
which from their catalog to understand

1129
00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:15,400
who was in their collection they could

1130
00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:16,890
feature to work on this edit-a-thon

1131
00:43:16,890 --> 00:43:20,080
similarly we run Wiki Loves Monuments

1132
00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:21,640
which is this great photographic

1133
00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:24,520
monument documentation process turns out

1134
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:27,190
that is the largest database of human

1135
00:43:27,190 --> 00:43:29,080
heritage monuments in the world UNESCO

1136
00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:30,970
uses our database at least that's what

1137
00:43:30,970 --> 00:43:33,220
they've told us so I can easily imagine

1138
00:43:33,220 --> 00:43:34,870
a world and this is actually one thing

1139
00:43:34,870 --> 00:43:36,280
that I think is critical it's an it's

1140
00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:37,420
something that we can provide to the

1141
00:43:37,420 --> 00:43:39,700
Commons and then enriches local service

1142
00:43:39,700 --> 00:43:41,920
my microphone enriches the ecosystem in

1143
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:44,980
turn is providing infrastructure that

1144
00:43:44,980 --> 00:43:47,470
opens more knowledge through things like

1145
00:43:47,470 --> 00:43:49,390
Wikibase and thinking about how we

1146
00:43:49,390 --> 00:43:50,740
expand it not just as something that

1147
00:43:50,740 --> 00:43:53,470
serves Wikipedia or Wikidata but

1148
00:43:53,470 --> 00:43:56,590
something that offers a service to a

1149
00:43:56,590 --> 00:43:58,180
greater number of institutions and

1150
00:43:58,180 --> 00:44:00,100
perhaps does have an end-user component

1151
00:44:00,100 --> 00:44:01,390
that is about the individual user

1152
00:44:01,390 --> 00:44:03,040
thinking about their data sets but

1153
00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:04,750
certainly has an opportunity for us to

1154
00:44:04,750 --> 00:44:07,000
think about institutional components or

1155
00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:09,250
institutional users that enriches the

1156
00:44:09,250 --> 00:44:11,710
open knowledge information ecosystem as

1157
00:44:11,710 --> 00:44:13,450
a whole and I think that that you know

1158
00:44:13,450 --> 00:44:15,490
is that ambitious absolutely is that

1159
00:44:15,490 --> 00:44:16,420
something we're gonna be doing in three

1160
00:44:16,420 --> 00:44:16,750
years

1161
00:44:16,750 --> 00:44:18,880
I don't know but is it something that we

1162
00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:21,700
see in on the horizon yes very much so

1163
00:44:21,700 --> 00:44:23,560
and we know that there are other part

1164
00:44:23,560 --> 00:44:25,870
third parties that are already engaging

1165
00:44:25,870 --> 00:44:27,220
with this and it's not just the sort of

1166
00:44:27,220 --> 00:44:29,380
usual players that you'd imagine we we

1167
00:44:29,380 --> 00:44:30,610
know that there are commercial entities

1168
00:44:30,610 --> 00:44:32,140
that are already taking up wiki base and

1169
00:44:32,140 --> 00:44:32,620
using

1170
00:44:32,620 --> 00:44:35,860
it in their work so yes we want to

1171
00:44:35,860 --> 00:44:39,310
revolutionize it all okay great

1172
00:44:39,310 --> 00:44:44,700
I'm sure people are dying to jump in so

1173
00:44:44,700 --> 00:44:55,090
opening the floor I have a really good

1174
00:44:55,090 --> 00:44:57,520
question I really enjoyed your talk and

1175
00:44:57,520 --> 00:45:01,030
it's just a yes or no question would you

1176
00:45:01,030 --> 00:45:02,920
be thrilled if everyone here went home

1177
00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:06,780
and made a donation to Wikimedia the

1178
00:45:06,780 --> 00:45:26,860
answer is yes so I wondered if you could

1179
00:45:26,860 --> 00:45:31,080
talk a little bit about people who

1180
00:45:31,080 --> 00:45:36,430
hesitate to participate because the idea

1181
00:45:36,430 --> 00:45:39,370
of creating knowledge or freeing it

1182
00:45:39,370 --> 00:45:41,020
I think there's both of those things are

1183
00:45:41,020 --> 00:45:42,820
happening when somebody participates in

1184
00:45:42,820 --> 00:45:45,490
writing or editing an article is a

1185
00:45:45,490 --> 00:45:49,810
little scary a little radical this is

1186
00:45:49,810 --> 00:45:52,180
something that I've been thinking about

1187
00:45:52,180 --> 00:45:54,040
a lot in different contexts but one

1188
00:45:54,040 --> 00:45:56,890
interesting example a Global Voices

1189
00:45:56,890 --> 00:45:58,870
Community member which is a community

1190
00:45:58,870 --> 00:46:02,080
I'm most part of who was working on a

1191
00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:04,030
project to build Wikipedia and Odia

1192
00:46:04,030 --> 00:46:06,760
which is a small language in India and he

1193
00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:08,320
talked about how there were people who

1194
00:46:08,320 --> 00:46:10,240
were hesitant to participate because

1195
00:46:10,240 --> 00:46:13,480
they wanted to put in addition to doing

1196
00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:14,710
a lot of translation they also want to

1197
00:46:14,710 --> 00:46:17,370
put stuff about they wanted to put

1198
00:46:17,370 --> 00:46:19,800
stories kind of cultural heritage

1199
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:23,980
material into the system but then they

1200
00:46:23,980 --> 00:46:26,080
were afraid of what would happen once it

1201
00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:26,620
was in there

1202
00:46:26,620 --> 00:46:30,010
what if somebody who doesn't know us

1203
00:46:30,010 --> 00:46:34,480
tries to hide it yeah these are so great

1204
00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:35,710
question first of all Odia maybe a

1205
00:46:35,710 --> 00:46:37,330
small language but it is the oldest of

1206
00:46:37,330 --> 00:46:42,060
the Indic language Wikipedias so oh yeah

1207
00:46:42,119 --> 00:46:44,940
and it has a great community the I think

1208
00:46:44,940 --> 00:46:46,349
that this is this is a great question

1209
00:46:46,349 --> 00:46:47,700
and I almost break it up into sort of

1210
00:46:47,700 --> 00:46:49,470
three parts right the first is the

1211
00:46:49,470 --> 00:46:51,599
hesitation to participate the second is

1212
00:46:51,599 --> 00:46:54,660
the issue of cultural heritage and other

1213
00:46:54,660 --> 00:46:57,569
forms of understanding cultural heritage

1214
00:46:57,569 --> 00:46:59,099
and other ways of documenting culture

1215
00:46:59,099 --> 00:47:01,769
heritage and the third is the question

1216
00:47:01,769 --> 00:47:03,539
of who knows us best right and so I

1217
00:47:03,539 --> 00:47:05,249
think on the first question this is

1218
00:47:05,249 --> 00:47:07,259
something we see often is and it's

1219
00:47:07,259 --> 00:47:09,180
something that is universal I don't know

1220
00:47:09,180 --> 00:47:11,579
what I have to contribute and so one of

1221
00:47:11,579 --> 00:47:12,539
the things that I think there's

1222
00:47:12,539 --> 00:47:13,829
different ways that we can address this

1223
00:47:13,829 --> 00:47:15,559
we're thinking about how do you create

1224
00:47:15,559 --> 00:47:18,599
more sort of open environments that are

1225
00:47:18,599 --> 00:47:20,069
more collaborative and social that can

1226
00:47:20,069 --> 00:47:21,900
help people with sort of pairing in

1227
00:47:21,900 --> 00:47:23,579
order where they come and they learn how

1228
00:47:23,579 --> 00:47:25,019
to edit Wikipedia as a more social

1229
00:47:25,019 --> 00:47:27,119
exercise and they're sort of on board

1230
00:47:27,119 --> 00:47:28,589
and cultured in that way we're

1231
00:47:28,589 --> 00:47:29,759
thinking about how do we replicate that

1232
00:47:29,759 --> 00:47:32,039
on in the online space how do we think

1233
00:47:32,039 --> 00:47:34,140
about small and directed tasks so that

1234
00:47:34,140 --> 00:47:35,519
people when they think gosh I really

1235
00:47:35,519 --> 00:47:36,539
want to contribute but what would be

1236
00:47:36,539 --> 00:47:38,490
most useful have a good pathway into

1237
00:47:38,490 --> 00:47:40,109
that so I think there's a sort of

1238
00:47:40,109 --> 00:47:41,490
product and social components that we

1239
00:47:41,490 --> 00:47:44,490
can do there I'm not saying they'll work

1240
00:47:44,490 --> 00:47:45,599
there'll be experiments and I'll come

1241
00:47:45,599 --> 00:47:47,130
back in your and let you know or two

1242
00:47:47,130 --> 00:47:49,259
years and let you know on the second one

1243
00:47:49,259 --> 00:47:51,779
this is something that is really a

1244
00:47:51,779 --> 00:47:53,819
challenge as our who communities from

1245
00:47:53,819 --> 00:47:55,559
particular communities that come from

1246
00:47:55,559 --> 00:47:58,170
places where oral tradition is far more

1247
00:47:58,170 --> 00:48:01,499
embedded within the historical record

1248
00:48:01,499 --> 00:48:03,660
and memory of a community they'll be the

1249
00:48:03,660 --> 00:48:05,279
first to tell us look Wikipedia's

1250
00:48:05,279 --> 00:48:07,589
standards of notability don't allow for

1251
00:48:07,589 --> 00:48:10,440
my heritage to be recorded in a

1252
00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:13,380
meaningful way and we're having this

1253
00:48:13,380 --> 00:48:15,089
conversation right now about what

1254
00:48:15,089 --> 00:48:17,220
sources would actually look like in the

1255
00:48:17,220 --> 00:48:20,009
sort of oral tradition space and not

1256
00:48:20,009 --> 00:48:21,150
just oral tradition but I think that

1257
00:48:21,150 --> 00:48:22,559
that opens the door to thinking about

1258
00:48:22,559 --> 00:48:25,739
sourcing more generally because is sort

1259
00:48:25,739 --> 00:48:27,450
of I think you alluded to a lot of the

1260
00:48:27,450 --> 00:48:29,190
knowledge that we have about many places

1261
00:48:29,190 --> 00:48:32,880
in the world that don't have this I hate

1262
00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:34,739
I hate to say this come from sort of an

1263
00:48:34,739 --> 00:48:36,630
anthropological understanding where

1264
00:48:36,630 --> 00:48:37,680
you've got somebody who doesn't speak

1265
00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:39,480
the language going to a place doing some

1266
00:48:39,480 --> 00:48:41,130
sort of documentation going through peer

1267
00:48:41,130 --> 00:48:42,809
review and publishing it and then saying

1268
00:48:42,809 --> 00:48:44,489
ah this is clearly the most you know

1269
00:48:44,489 --> 00:48:45,630
accurate understanding of this

1270
00:48:45,630 --> 00:48:47,039
particular heritage or culture or

1271
00:48:47,039 --> 00:48:49,140
history when the that community itself

1272
00:48:49,140 --> 00:48:51,150
is not represented and then from a means

1273
00:48:51,150 --> 00:48:53,369
of production of knowledge and then you

1274
00:48:53,369 --> 00:48:54,989
know the third part of that which is how

1275
00:48:54,989 --> 00:48:55,350
do you

1276
00:48:55,350 --> 00:48:56,970
protect it so that other people don't come

1277
00:48:56,970 --> 00:48:59,100
in and edit it I think that our

1278
00:48:59,100 --> 00:49:01,140
experience there is how do you grow

1279
00:49:01,140 --> 00:49:03,270
community that is healthy and robust

1280
00:49:03,270 --> 00:49:06,270
enough that it is sustaining and can do

1281
00:49:06,270 --> 00:49:08,610
that sort of achieve that homeostasis or

1282
00:49:08,610 --> 00:49:10,440
self-regulation to ensure that there are

1283
00:49:10,440 --> 00:49:12,660
many eyes on who can help preserve that

1284
00:49:12,660 --> 00:49:14,270
narrative so those are three I think

1285
00:49:14,270 --> 00:49:16,680
highly interrelated and very difficult

1286
00:49:16,680 --> 00:49:18,690
challenges and to the points that we

1287
00:49:18,690 --> 00:49:20,100
talked about knowledge equity and

1288
00:49:20,100 --> 00:49:21,900
equitable support for emerging

1289
00:49:21,900 --> 00:49:24,060
communities one of the big shifts that I

1290
00:49:24,060 --> 00:49:26,280
anticipate will be away from how do we

1291
00:49:26,280 --> 00:49:28,350
optimize current production on German

1292
00:49:28,350 --> 00:49:29,460
and English and French and Spanish

1293
00:49:29,460 --> 00:49:30,780
Wikipedia, we love all of those

1294
00:49:30,780 --> 00:49:32,400
Wikipedias and we will continue to support

1295
00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:34,170
them, but also thinking about what are

1296
00:49:34,170 --> 00:49:35,460
the unique needs of these other

1297
00:49:35,460 --> 00:49:37,590
communities. I recently learned about the

1298
00:49:37,590 --> 00:49:39,260
creation of the Dinka Wikipedia in the

1299
00:49:39,260 --> 00:49:42,180
Incubator, Dinka is a language spoken in

1300
00:49:42,180 --> 00:49:44,340
South Sudan, where people are creating

1301
00:49:44,340 --> 00:49:46,080
knowledge on Facebook and then having

1302
00:49:46,080 --> 00:49:47,460
one person sending it to another

1303
00:49:47,460 --> 00:49:50,370
person as a post, who will then upload it

1304
00:49:50,370 --> 00:49:52,410
to Wikipedia because they are unfamiliar

1305
00:49:52,410 --> 00:49:55,440
with the Wikitext and it feels like a

1306
00:49:55,440 --> 00:49:57,540
safer production space to do it as a

1307
00:49:57,540 --> 00:49:59,460
Facebook post and so these are the

1308
00:49:59,460 --> 00:50:00,870
emerging realities that I think we need

1309
00:50:00,870 --> 00:50:02,460
to contend with if we really truly want

1310
00:50:02,460 --> 00:50:07,890
to support all knowledge and I know you

1311
00:50:07,890 --> 00:50:10,890
have to run we have a summer break for

1312
00:50:10,890 --> 00:50:12,750
people whoever one o'clock class name

1313
00:50:12,750 --> 00:50:14,640
there are some open chairs for people

1314
00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:20,400
who are sitting along the wall I have a

1315
00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:22,140
quick question on that last point about

1316
00:50:22,140 --> 00:50:25,110
creating a safe space what are the what

1317
00:50:25,110 --> 00:50:26,970
are the possibilities for making safer

1318
00:50:26,970 --> 00:50:28,350
spaces for people who wanted to start

1319
00:50:28,350 --> 00:50:29,610
contributing and don't know how to

1320
00:50:29,610 --> 00:50:32,820
defend themselves from established

1321
00:50:32,820 --> 00:50:37,140
experience editors I hate that people have to

1322
00:50:37,140 --> 00:50:38,820
defend themselves from established

1323
00:50:38,820 --> 00:50:41,910
experienced editors I mean how many people

1324
00:50:41,910 --> 00:50:43,680
here have had a Wikipedia article that

1325
00:50:43,680 --> 00:50:46,170
they created put up for deletion in the

1326
00:50:46,170 --> 00:50:50,340
last year or so it happens if Vargas

1327
00:50:50,340 --> 00:50:52,680
also has a hard time getting and getting

1328
00:50:52,680 --> 00:50:55,910
a stub article saving it from deletion

1329
00:50:55,910 --> 00:50:58,940
no I

1330
00:51:02,970 --> 00:51:06,670
yeah this is this is a real challenge

1331
00:51:06,670 --> 00:51:09,010
you know Yochai I said earlier that you

1332
00:51:09,010 --> 00:51:12,190
were surprised by the confidence of the

1333
00:51:12,190 --> 00:51:14,620
conversation because a few years back we

1334
00:51:14,620 --> 00:51:16,120
were not nearly so confidence about

1335
00:51:16,120 --> 00:51:17,860
confident about our longevity our

1336
00:51:17,860 --> 00:51:19,120
confident about the health of our

1337
00:51:19,120 --> 00:51:21,790
editorial community I don't want to

1338
00:51:21,790 --> 00:51:23,590
imply that we are confident I just think

1339
00:51:23,590 --> 00:51:25,420
we understand the challenges a little

1340
00:51:25,420 --> 00:51:27,100
bit better than we have in the past in

1341
00:51:27,100 --> 00:51:28,450
large part because we actually have data

1342
00:51:28,450 --> 00:51:30,220
now which we never used to really have

1343
00:51:30,220 --> 00:51:34,540
which is nice we like data I think we're

1344
00:51:34,540 --> 00:51:36,250
looking at a variety of different ways

1345
00:51:36,250 --> 00:51:38,680
to address the question that you raised

1346
00:51:38,680 --> 00:51:41,110
which is how do you create spaces that

1347
00:51:41,110 --> 00:51:44,080
encourage people to learn in a way that

1348
00:51:44,080 --> 00:51:46,690
feels welcoming and there was a project

1349
00:51:46,690 --> 00:51:49,660
that was created a few years back it was

1350
00:51:49,660 --> 00:51:51,190
really sort of a community-based project

1351
00:51:51,190 --> 00:51:52,810
on English Wikipedia called the Tea

1352
00:51:52,810 --> 00:51:55,750
House which is a forum for newbies to

1353
00:51:55,750 --> 00:51:58,090
come ask questions in a judgment-free

1354
00:51:58,090 --> 00:52:01,540
environment and get yeah actual support

1355
00:52:01,540 --> 00:52:03,850
from a real live person as opposed to

1356
00:52:03,850 --> 00:52:05,530
some sort of and we have hundreds of

1357
00:52:05,530 --> 00:52:07,120
thousands of pages not really hundreds

1358
00:52:07,120 --> 00:52:08,290
of thousands and hundreds of pages of

1359
00:52:08,290 --> 00:52:10,480
policies that you can look up the Tea

1360
00:52:10,480 --> 00:52:12,120
House turns out has the greatest

1361
00:52:12,120 --> 00:52:14,860
conversion factor for return repeat

1362
00:52:14,860 --> 00:52:17,920
editors of anything we've ever tried so

1363
00:52:17,920 --> 00:52:19,210
I think there's a question of how do you

1364
00:52:19,210 --> 00:52:21,580
encourage those sort of community peer

1365
00:52:21,580 --> 00:52:24,760
mentoring spaces as well as how do you

1366
00:52:24,760 --> 00:52:27,280
think about from a product experience

1367
00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:29,740
space and I when I talk about product

1368
00:52:29,740 --> 00:52:31,600
'çause apologies this wasn't what I was

1369
00:52:31,600 --> 00:52:33,190
really familiar with before heading out

1370
00:52:33,190 --> 00:52:35,650
to go work for Wikipedia what I'm

1371
00:52:35,650 --> 00:52:37,480
talking about is the features and

1372
00:52:37,480 --> 00:52:41,410
interfaces within the Wikipedia editing

1373
00:52:41,410 --> 00:52:44,770
or reading space so how do you think

1374
00:52:44,770 --> 00:52:46,780
about from a product environment what

1375
00:52:46,780 --> 00:52:49,020
might look like a way to create and

1376
00:52:49,020 --> 00:52:52,720
receive sort of nudges as you contribute

1377
00:52:52,720 --> 00:52:55,510
to information like it I mean I think of

1378
00:52:55,510 --> 00:52:57,760
Clippy for Microsoft Word but done right

1379
00:52:57,760 --> 00:52:59,890
right like instead of saying it looks

1380
00:52:59,890 --> 00:53:00,970
like you're trying to you know write a

1381
00:53:00,970 --> 00:53:04,210
letter sit before you submit an article

1382
00:53:04,210 --> 00:53:06,340
an article for example you might here

1383
00:53:06,340 --> 00:53:08,020
might see something that says you know

1384
00:53:08,020 --> 00:53:09,280
this looks like this could use more

1385
00:53:09,280 --> 00:53:12,490
citations or something that we are now

1386
00:53:12,490 --> 00:53:12,880
using

1387
00:53:12,880 --> 00:53:14,320
machine learning to evaluate like the

1388
00:53:14,320 --> 00:53:17,140
quality of an article based on a variety

1389
00:53:17,140 --> 00:53:18,820
of different things be able to run it

1390
00:53:18,820 --> 00:53:21,580
through an evaluative service to say

1391
00:53:21,580 --> 00:53:23,650
this looks like it could use a little

1392
00:53:23,650 --> 00:53:25,420
more work and here maybe here are some

1393
00:53:25,420 --> 00:53:27,160
resources to help you with that I mean

1394
00:53:27,160 --> 00:53:28,600
all of these things are technically

1395
00:53:28,600 --> 00:53:30,250
possible at this point I don't know how

1396
00:53:30,250 --> 00:53:31,840
successful they would be I mean this is

1397
00:53:31,840 --> 00:53:34,180
something we'd have to test out it's

1398
00:53:34,180 --> 00:53:36,910
just a question of resourcing that would

1399
00:53:36,910 --> 00:53:38,530
the resources that would be necessary to

1400
00:53:38,530 --> 00:53:45,160
actually start to build that okay so I

1401
00:53:45,160 --> 00:53:47,800
have a microphone so so I guess I just

1402
00:53:47,800 --> 00:53:49,150
want to finish up on that and then ask a

1403
00:53:49,150 --> 00:53:53,350
different question if one develops tools

1404
00:53:53,350 --> 00:53:54,760
that did that kind of checking to help

1405
00:53:54,760 --> 00:53:57,280
new editors I would strongly encourage

1406
00:53:57,280 --> 00:53:59,080
that before releasing that you actually

1407
00:53:59,080 --> 00:54:01,720
run it on existing articles because the

1408
00:54:01,720 --> 00:54:03,340
story that I was alluding to was

1409
00:54:03,340 --> 00:54:06,670
actually I modeled a webpage on a male

1410
00:54:06,670 --> 00:54:09,040
colleagues who was already up and

1411
00:54:09,040 --> 00:54:11,440
accepted and happy and I submitted it

1412
00:54:11,440 --> 00:54:13,720
for a female colleague that was rejected

1413
00:54:13,720 --> 00:54:16,060
a number of times yeah so so there can I

1414
00:54:16,060 --> 00:54:18,040
just there's a really cool hack that one

1415
00:54:18,040 --> 00:54:19,570
of our engineers built it's called and

1416
00:54:19,570 --> 00:54:22,540
you can use it to drop any URL in like

1417
00:54:22,540 --> 00:54:24,490
the New York Times or Wikipedia it's

1418
00:54:24,490 --> 00:54:28,830
called neutrality.wtf [scattered claps] and it inverts

1419
00:54:28,830 --> 00:54:33,520
gender identifier it's it's a really

1420
00:54:33,520 --> 00:54:35,830
interesting and she built it as a way of

1421
00:54:35,830 --> 00:54:38,440
reflecting on bias within Wikipedia and

1422
00:54:38,440 --> 00:54:39,460
I want to just point out that I

1423
00:54:39,460 --> 00:54:41,590
recognize it's a binary bias we actually

1424
00:54:41,590 --> 00:54:43,240
have some pretty graduate comedians who

1425
00:54:43,240 --> 00:54:45,250
are talking about all sorts like the

1426
00:54:45,250 --> 00:54:47,590
transgender gap on Wikipedia and and

1427
00:54:47,590 --> 00:54:49,540
other issues that are not about really

1428
00:54:49,540 --> 00:54:50,500
thinking about representation and

1429
00:54:50,500 --> 00:54:52,300
non-binary space but yes you were

1430
00:54:52,300 --> 00:54:54,460
absolutely correct there is a problem

1431
00:54:54,460 --> 00:54:56,350
there but so the other thing that you

1432
00:54:56,350 --> 00:54:58,540
sort of referred to implicitly a couple

1433
00:54:58,540 --> 00:55:00,880
times is you know communities achieve

1434
00:55:00,880 --> 00:55:05,410
homeostasis and in articles so so we

1435
00:55:05,410 --> 00:55:06,430
happen to have done a bunch of work

1436
00:55:06,430 --> 00:55:09,070
looking at controversy in or otherwise

1437
00:55:09,070 --> 00:55:12,340
known as edit wars on Wikipedia they are

1438
00:55:12,340 --> 00:55:17,650
pervasive and I just wonder how to think

1439
00:55:17,650 --> 00:55:20,770
about it right in that there really are

1440
00:55:20,770 --> 00:55:23,680
very controversial articles some of them

1441
00:55:23,680 --> 00:55:25,240
would surprise you

1442
00:55:25,240 --> 00:55:26,770
I don't think Standard Poodle was

1443
00:55:26,770 --> 00:55:27,970
one of them but there are some that seem

1444
00:55:27,970 --> 00:55:29,950
as innocuous the skyline of the city of

1445
00:55:29,950 --> 00:55:32,320
Paris super controversial there you go

1446
00:55:32,320 --> 00:55:32,950
okay

1447
00:55:32,950 --> 00:55:35,380
so so how do you think about controversy

1448
00:55:35,380 --> 00:55:38,190
since you're trying to free knowledge

1449
00:55:38,190 --> 00:55:41,200
how do you think about it so what has

1450
00:55:41,200 --> 00:55:43,150
been interesting as and I don't have a

1451
00:55:43,150 --> 00:55:44,860
good answer for this and I'll and I'll

1452
00:55:44,860 --> 00:55:47,560
share why what has been interesting that

1453
00:55:47,560 --> 00:55:50,830
we've seen emerge recently is that

1454
00:55:50,830 --> 00:55:52,270
historically that has all been under the

1455
00:55:52,270 --> 00:55:54,430
rubric of editorial policy and there has

1456
00:55:54,430 --> 00:55:57,370
always been a very clear sort of wall

1457
00:55:57,370 --> 00:55:59,710
between editorial policy which is set by

1458
00:55:59,710 --> 00:56:02,770
the editors and the operation of the

1459
00:56:02,770 --> 00:56:05,050
sites themselves and support to the

1460
00:56:05,050 --> 00:56:06,220
community which is provided by the

1461
00:56:06,220 --> 00:56:09,220
Wikimedia Foundation we are a platform

1462
00:56:09,220 --> 00:56:11,560
provider we are not an editorial product

1463
00:56:11,560 --> 00:56:13,870
and so there we adhere to that bright

1464
00:56:13,870 --> 00:56:16,470
line for a variety of reasons including

1465
00:56:16,470 --> 00:56:22,470
it allows us to engage with favorable

1466
00:56:22,470 --> 00:56:25,060
protections that allow us to publish

1467
00:56:25,060 --> 00:56:26,290
things that other parties might not

1468
00:56:26,290 --> 00:56:28,300
otherwise be able to publish so just

1469
00:56:28,300 --> 00:56:30,220
some extent that has sort of sat outside

1470
00:56:30,220 --> 00:56:32,200
of what the Wikimedia foundation spends

1471
00:56:32,200 --> 00:56:34,900
a lot of time thinking about but i think

1472
00:56:34,900 --> 00:56:37,390
that increasingly as we're aware of the

1473
00:56:37,390 --> 00:56:40,390
bias aspects we have started to engage

1474
00:56:40,390 --> 00:56:41,920
with thinking about how do we address

1475
00:56:41,920 --> 00:56:44,470
some of these editorial gaps as a whole

1476
00:56:44,470 --> 00:56:45,820
and this is bringing us into

1477
00:56:45,820 --> 00:56:49,180
conversations around controversy because

1478
00:56:49,180 --> 00:56:51,100
we are starting to see where some of

1479
00:56:51,100 --> 00:56:52,990
those controversies start to impact

1480
00:56:52,990 --> 00:56:56,560
community health overall and so I don't

1481
00:56:56,560 --> 00:56:58,570
know that I have an answer for you yet

1482
00:56:58,570 --> 00:57:00,340
because I think we're trying to unpack

1483
00:57:00,340 --> 00:57:03,280
this as I'm thinking of an incident

1484
00:57:03,280 --> 00:57:06,250
that's happening right now on on Greek

1485
00:57:06,250 --> 00:57:07,990
Wikipedia and we're trying to unpack

1486
00:57:07,990 --> 00:57:09,880
some of these issues around what happens

1487
00:57:09,880 --> 00:57:11,260
when a community deadlocks and

1488
00:57:11,260 --> 00:57:13,990
information stops being produced and

1489
00:57:13,990 --> 00:57:16,690
conflicts are not being resolved and

1490
00:57:16,690 --> 00:57:18,700
those conflict resolution mechanisms

1491
00:57:18,700 --> 00:57:20,880
begin to break down to the extent that

1492
00:57:20,880 --> 00:57:23,530
it has a deleterious effect on the on

1493
00:57:23,530 --> 00:57:26,290
the health of the project overall on you

1494
00:57:26,290 --> 00:57:27,850
know specifically how Wikipedia handles

1495
00:57:27,850 --> 00:57:29,920
controversy and it is as you said it's

1496
00:57:29,920 --> 00:57:30,970
not just sort of the border between

1497
00:57:30,970 --> 00:57:33,780
Ukraine and Russia but it's also

1498
00:57:33,780 --> 00:57:37,110
elephants thank you Stephen Colbert or

1499
00:57:37,110 --> 00:57:39,240
articles around as I said the skyline of

1500
00:57:39,240 --> 00:57:41,670
the city of Paris is that there's like a

1501
00:57:41,670 --> 00:57:43,680
cooling-off period an article might be

1502
00:57:43,680 --> 00:57:45,300
semi protected for a while or they'll

1503
00:57:45,300 --> 00:57:47,550
bring a neutral party to assess an

1504
00:57:47,550 --> 00:57:50,310
arbitrate a decision or it'll be pushed

1505
00:57:50,310 --> 00:57:52,230
up through our arbitration mechanisms as

1506
00:57:52,230 --> 00:57:54,570
inter-community disputes but there

1507
00:57:54,570 --> 00:57:57,060
aren't we're beginning to see where some

1508
00:57:57,060 --> 00:57:58,890
of those limitations exist and I think

1509
00:57:58,890 --> 00:58:00,720
part of our job at the foundation is

1510
00:58:00,720 --> 00:58:02,820
thinking about what are ways that we can

1511
00:58:02,820 --> 00:58:04,880
provide the community with data and

1512
00:58:04,880 --> 00:58:07,730
resources to allow them to start to

1513
00:58:07,730 --> 00:58:09,780
understand their own challenges and

1514
00:58:09,780 --> 00:58:11,700
reflect back on this and so we have some

1515
00:58:11,700 --> 00:58:14,220
community we have a team within the

1516
00:58:14,220 --> 00:58:15,480
foundation that's working on this at

1517
00:58:15,480 --> 00:58:17,940
this very moment around new article

1518
00:58:17,940 --> 00:58:19,440
creation on English Wikipedia because

1519
00:58:19,440 --> 00:58:21,120
there's a huge backlog and our reviewers

1520
00:58:21,120 --> 00:58:22,440
are saying we can't even get to this and

1521
00:58:22,440 --> 00:58:23,940
so we're saying well let's help you by

1522
00:58:23,940 --> 00:58:25,590
modeling some of the information so that

1523
00:58:25,590 --> 00:58:26,940
you can actually understand the source

1524
00:58:26,940 --> 00:58:28,050
of the problem so I think that

1525
00:58:28,050 --> 00:58:29,490
increasingly what you're going to see is

1526
00:58:29,490 --> 00:58:30,990
a partnership between the editorial

1527
00:58:30,990 --> 00:58:32,730
challenge of the community faces and the

1528
00:58:32,730 --> 00:58:34,410
tooling that the foundation can provide

1529
00:58:34,410 --> 00:58:36,360
to start just to think about how do we

1530
00:58:36,360 --> 00:58:38,930
unlock some of these critical conflicts

1531
00:58:38,930 --> 00:58:41,820
I'd love that we probably have a lot to

1532
00:58:41,820 --> 00:58:45,060
learn I think it's it's likely related

1533
00:58:45,060 --> 00:58:47,490
my question is in the same way as we

1534
00:58:47,490 --> 00:58:50,910
have different languages of Wikipedia that

1535
00:58:50,910 --> 00:58:53,820
are taking the same concept but perhaps

1536
00:58:53,820 --> 00:58:55,620
that are actually focusing on different

1537
00:58:55,620 --> 00:58:56,880
thing because of the cultural background

1538
00:58:56,880 --> 00:58:59,090
that goes with the different language

1539
00:58:59,090 --> 00:59:02,390
have you been thinking to actually have

1540
00:59:02,390 --> 00:59:06,450
different articles for the same concept

1541
00:59:06,450 --> 00:59:09,300
but not because of a different language

1542
00:59:09,300 --> 00:59:11,070
but because perhaps of a different

1543
00:59:11,070 --> 00:59:13,830
perspective because of a different

1544
00:59:13,830 --> 00:59:16,770
community in the sense that instead of

1545
00:59:16,770 --> 00:59:20,430
trying really hard to come to a consensus

1546
00:59:20,430 --> 00:59:22,410
and perhaps to distill the information

1547
00:59:22,410 --> 00:59:24,080
to the maximum so that it actually is

1548
00:59:24,080 --> 00:59:29,190
neutral to actually embrace the fact

1549
00:59:29,190 --> 00:59:31,440
that there is a diversity of perspective

1550
00:59:31,440 --> 00:59:33,930
of a particular topic and actually

1551
00:59:33,930 --> 00:59:36,990
enable multiple pages to emerge that are

1552
00:59:36,990 --> 00:59:38,820
focusing on those different perspectives

1553
00:59:38,820 --> 00:59:41,340
so we haven't done anything at this

1554
00:59:41,340 --> 00:59:43,200
point around sort of forked articles

1555
00:59:43,200 --> 00:59:45,270
that would allow you to say look at this

1556
00:59:45,270 --> 00:59:46,650
article from one perspective look at

1557
00:59:46,650 --> 00:59:49,360
this article from another perspective I

1558
00:59:49,360 --> 00:59:50,680
to come down on the side of that would

1559
00:59:50,680 --> 00:59:52,900
probably break the model because what

1560
00:59:52,900 --> 00:59:55,030
the model does effectively is push to

1561
00:59:55,030 --> 00:59:58,540
some sort of effort to achieve consensus

1562
00:59:58,540 --> 01:00:02,590
and pauses when consensus can't be

1563
01:00:02,590 --> 01:00:04,240
reached right so controversial

1564
01:00:04,240 --> 01:00:05,680
information is not inserted until

1565
01:00:05,680 --> 01:00:07,450
consensus can be reached around it and

1566
01:00:07,450 --> 01:00:10,240
so it might be that evolution of

1567
01:00:10,240 --> 01:00:12,400
understanding on particular topics is a

1568
01:00:12,400 --> 01:00:14,020
little bit slower on Wikipedia than it

1569
01:00:14,020 --> 01:00:15,970
is in scholarship but that's actually

1570
01:00:15,970 --> 01:00:18,340
sort of core to what the way that

1571
01:00:18,340 --> 01:00:20,220
Wikipedia thinks if it's all functioning

1572
01:00:20,220 --> 01:00:23,380
to your point this is an issue in in a

1573
01:00:23,380 --> 01:00:25,450
variety of different languages where

1574
01:00:25,450 --> 01:00:27,160
you'll have a different perspective I

1575
01:00:27,160 --> 01:00:29,080
just came back from Warsaw and our

1576
01:00:29,080 --> 01:00:31,390
central Eastern European Community

1577
01:00:31,390 --> 01:00:33,190
Conference which brought together people

1578
01:00:33,190 --> 01:00:35,440
from 23 different countries and as least

1579
01:00:35,440 --> 01:00:38,350
as many languages from Uzbekistan to

1580
01:00:38,350 --> 01:00:40,900
Germany to Russia to Republic of Srpska

1581
01:00:40,900 --> 01:00:42,850
and as you can well imagine these

1582
01:00:42,850 --> 01:00:44,320
communities have very different

1583
01:00:44,320 --> 01:00:46,300
historical experiences of their own

1584
01:00:46,300 --> 01:00:48,280
truth and so one of the interesting

1585
01:00:48,280 --> 01:00:49,900
projects that they do is they have

1586
01:00:49,900 --> 01:00:52,060
something where they all edit about each

1587
01:00:52,060 --> 01:00:53,650
other's history as a means of

1588
01:00:53,650 --> 01:00:55,720
understanding and enriching the coverage

1589
01:00:55,720 --> 01:00:57,190
that exists within their own language

1590
01:00:57,190 --> 01:00:59,500
because understandably Albanian has a

1591
01:00:59,500 --> 01:01:00,970
lot of articles about Albanian history

1592
01:01:00,970 --> 01:01:02,110
but it might not have so many articles

1593
01:01:02,110 --> 01:01:03,880
about Greek history and so that's one of

1594
01:01:03,880 --> 01:01:05,170
the things where they're really trying

1595
01:01:05,170 --> 01:01:06,250
to think about how do you enrich that

1596
01:01:06,250 --> 01:01:09,640
broad-based perspective as a whole I am

1597
01:01:09,640 --> 01:01:11,950
very interested with how as we I think

1598
01:01:11,950 --> 01:01:14,290
two things are going to start to force

1599
01:01:14,290 --> 01:01:16,420
us to reconcile or start to engage with

1600
01:01:16,420 --> 01:01:17,980
how do you reconcile very divergent

1601
01:01:17,980 --> 01:01:21,460
experiences of history one of which is

1602
01:01:21,460 --> 01:01:23,650
the advent of Wikidata really becoming

1603
01:01:23,650 --> 01:01:25,390
far more integrated within Wikipedia as

1604
01:01:25,390 --> 01:01:26,530
a whole because you'll start to be able

1605
01:01:26,530 --> 01:01:28,870
to link articles one to one based on

1606
01:01:28,870 --> 01:01:30,700
their subject matter in a way that is

1607
01:01:30,700 --> 01:01:32,530
currently impossible there's no superset

1608
01:01:32,530 --> 01:01:34,540
of Wikipedia it was just the largest of

1609
01:01:34,540 --> 01:01:35,740
the Wikipedia's and everything else is

1610
01:01:35,740 --> 01:01:38,140
sort of a bad copy of it it's they're

1611
01:01:38,140 --> 01:01:39,670
all completely different in terms of the

1612
01:01:39,670 --> 01:01:41,380
content that they have what wiki data

1613
01:01:41,380 --> 01:01:43,150
will start to start identifying that and

1614
01:01:43,150 --> 01:01:44,560
the other one is just machine

1615
01:01:44,560 --> 01:01:46,210
translation gets better and better and

1616
01:01:46,210 --> 01:01:47,890
better every day so you can start to see

1617
01:01:47,890 --> 01:01:50,020
divergent viewpoints within the

1618
01:01:50,020 --> 01:01:52,690
historical record I was talking about

1619
01:01:52,690 --> 01:01:55,660
this with a person in in Beirut recently

1620
01:01:55,660 --> 01:01:56,710
who was saying the way that they

1621
01:01:56,710 --> 01:01:58,780
addressed this is they would write an

1622
01:01:58,780 --> 01:02:00,460
article if it's a you know the history

1623
01:02:00,460 --> 01:02:01,900
of the Middle East the sykes-picot

1624
01:02:01,900 --> 01:02:02,670
agreement

1625
01:02:02,670 --> 01:02:04,230
what they would actually say do is

1626
01:02:04,230 --> 01:02:05,430
they'd fork the article and they'd say

1627
01:02:05,430 --> 01:02:10,730
the West or the you know Occidental

1628
01:02:10,730 --> 01:02:12,540
scholarship of the sykes-picot agreement

1629
01:02:12,540 --> 01:02:16,530
versus you know Arabic scholarship of

1630
01:02:16,530 --> 01:02:18,000
the sykes-picot agreement and that would

1631
01:02:18,000 --> 01:02:19,140
be the way that they would address this

1632
01:02:19,140 --> 01:02:21,210
is understanding the different body of

1633
01:02:21,210 --> 01:02:23,160
knowledge as represented and created

1634
01:02:23,160 --> 01:02:24,900
through different perspectives and

1635
01:02:24,900 --> 01:02:26,880
identifying and addressing those both as

1636
01:02:26,880 --> 01:02:29,910
neutral representations of where this

1637
01:02:29,910 --> 01:02:31,680
body of knowledge exists rather than

1638
01:02:31,680 --> 01:02:33,870
trying to reconcile or fork the articles

1639
01:02:33,870 --> 01:02:37,800
themselves that's a great question I

1640
01:02:37,800 --> 01:02:39,780
think we have time for one more question

1641
01:02:39,780 --> 01:02:41,400
and then we'll take a break until the

1642
01:02:41,400 --> 01:02:45,930
symposium starts hey Katherine I'm Alvin

1643
01:02:45,930 --> 01:02:48,450
an affiliate here at Brooklyn and

1644
01:02:48,450 --> 01:02:50,820
working on trying to get open source

1645
01:02:50,820 --> 01:02:52,890
software kind of taking government code

1646
01:02:52,890 --> 01:02:54,320
and releasing it as open-source software

1647
01:02:54,320 --> 01:02:56,700
but I'm curious about your internal

1648
01:02:56,700 --> 01:02:59,780
policy decision-making at Wikimedia and

1649
01:02:59,780 --> 01:03:02,640
in the spirit of kind of openness

1650
01:03:02,640 --> 01:03:05,190
how are those decisions made do you do

1651
01:03:05,190 --> 01:03:06,060
it with the community

1652
01:03:06,060 --> 01:03:08,250
are there certain decisions that are

1653
01:03:08,250 --> 01:03:10,560
kind of more internal what comes to mind

1654
01:03:10,560 --> 01:03:12,240
is for example I think in the last year

1655
01:03:12,240 --> 01:03:14,940
or so there was a decision to make sure

1656
01:03:14,940 --> 01:03:17,850
that from one month you wait until three

1657
01:03:17,850 --> 01:03:19,380
months I think before something is

1658
01:03:19,380 --> 01:03:23,730
actually published in and searchable on

1659
01:03:23,730 --> 01:03:25,680
you know Google and being and other

1660
01:03:25,680 --> 01:03:28,920
things like that yeah so I think that

1661
01:03:28,920 --> 01:03:30,540
happened in the last year or so and it

1662
01:03:30,540 --> 01:03:32,610
looked like a community decision but I'm

1663
01:03:32,610 --> 01:03:34,710
curious whether you know internal

1664
01:03:34,710 --> 01:03:36,840
dynamics kind of play into that as well

1665
01:03:36,840 --> 01:03:40,430
I'm not sure I understand

1666
01:03:40,550 --> 01:03:43,020
so like whether a search engine

1667
01:03:43,020 --> 01:03:45,890
externally populates a Wikipedia article

1668
01:03:45,890 --> 01:03:49,020
it used to be I think a month and now

1669
01:03:49,020 --> 01:03:53,400
it's 90 days are we're constantly I'm

1670
01:03:53,400 --> 01:03:55,590
pretty sure that's not I'm not sure

1671
01:03:55,590 --> 01:03:57,630
about that exact example because one of

1672
01:03:57,630 --> 01:03:58,830
the things that we actually pride

1673
01:03:58,830 --> 01:04:00,840
ourselves on is being more up-to-date

1674
01:04:00,840 --> 01:04:02,460
than any of the dumps that we do on a

1675
01:04:02,460 --> 01:04:05,490
weekly basis so I'm pretty sure where I

1676
01:04:05,490 --> 01:04:08,220
ran into it just when I was trying to

1677
01:04:08,220 --> 01:04:10,020
publish a couple articles and then it

1678
01:04:10,020 --> 01:04:11,790
was saying that you have to wait 90 days

1679
01:04:11,790 --> 01:04:13,710
now before you actually

1680
01:04:13,710 --> 01:04:16,170
so that that has to do with a new

1681
01:04:16,170 --> 01:04:17,790
article review which is a community

1682
01:04:17,790 --> 01:04:20,340
editorial thing and that has to do with

1683
01:04:20,340 --> 01:04:22,680
the question earlier about how do we

1684
01:04:22,680 --> 01:04:25,530
engage with controversy and providing

1685
01:04:25,530 --> 01:04:27,420
data to our community so they can

1686
01:04:27,420 --> 01:04:30,030
understand where the bottlenecks are and

1687
01:04:30,030 --> 01:04:31,620
this is this thing it's called act trial

1688
01:04:31,620 --> 01:04:32,940
it's something that we're working on

1689
01:04:32,940 --> 01:04:35,610
it's meant to give a sort of evidentiary

1690
01:04:35,610 --> 01:04:36,570
data so that we can make better

1691
01:04:36,570 --> 01:04:38,310
decisions as a community and that is

1692
01:04:38,310 --> 01:04:39,990
exactly what you're referring to so we

1693
01:04:39,990 --> 01:04:41,640
make those decisions in partnership with

1694
01:04:41,640 --> 01:04:44,790
the community I think that generally

1695
01:04:44,790 --> 01:04:45,930
speaking there are many people at the

1696
01:04:45,930 --> 01:04:47,820
Foundation who don't like that decision

1697
01:04:47,820 --> 01:04:50,850
who believe that that sort of is at odds

1698
01:04:50,850 --> 01:04:54,630
with the spirit of anyone can edit but

1699
01:04:54,630 --> 01:04:57,090
one other thing we heard loud and clear

1700
01:04:57,090 --> 01:04:58,710
from certain community members that this

1701
01:04:58,710 --> 01:05:00,450
was a challenge they could not keep up

1702
01:05:00,450 --> 01:05:03,360
with the backlog of information and so

1703
01:05:03,360 --> 01:05:05,010
we said alright let's try to find a way

1704
01:05:05,010 --> 01:05:06,840
that we really understand the nature

1705
01:05:06,840 --> 01:05:08,880
size scope scale of this problem and

1706
01:05:08,880 --> 01:05:14,670
let's apply this let's actually build

1707
01:05:14,670 --> 01:05:17,070
out a trial for us to be able to show

1708
01:05:17,070 --> 01:05:18,720
you the data so that we can come to

1709
01:05:18,720 --> 01:05:20,490
decisions around how we might need to

1710
01:05:20,490 --> 01:05:22,860
update policies and so that is a great

1711
01:05:22,860 --> 01:05:24,000
example of where we partner with

1712
01:05:24,000 --> 01:05:26,220
community about around policy making but

1713
01:05:26,220 --> 01:05:27,720
it's not just this our Terms of Service

1714
01:05:27,720 --> 01:05:30,570
our privacy policy our data retention

1715
01:05:30,570 --> 01:05:33,150
policies anything that is not sort of

1716
01:05:33,150 --> 01:05:35,520
legally mandated is something that we

1717
01:05:35,520 --> 01:05:37,020
engage with our community around

1718
01:05:37,020 --> 01:05:39,150
thinking through what exists right there

1719
01:05:39,150 --> 01:05:40,680
are certain things that you know are

1720
01:05:40,680 --> 01:05:42,210
legally mandated within the United

1721
01:05:42,210 --> 01:05:43,680
States and so that's that's just a

1722
01:05:43,680 --> 01:05:45,810
that's a baseline but almost every other

1723
01:05:45,810 --> 01:05:47,460
aspect of what we do from thinking about

1724
01:05:47,460 --> 01:05:49,110
you know where are we gonna put caching

1725
01:05:49,110 --> 01:05:52,410
servers to the way that we think about

1726
01:05:52,410 --> 01:05:55,200
tagging referral referrer  traffic all of this is

1727
01:05:55,200 --> 01:05:57,120
subject to community discussion our

1728
01:05:57,120 --> 01:05:59,520
decision to go to HTTPS recently that

1729
01:05:59,520 --> 01:06:00,480
was subject to community and not

1730
01:06:00,480 --> 01:06:02,850
recently a couple years ago yes yes HST

1731
01:06:02,850 --> 01:06:05,400
is not just HTTP that was subject to

1732
01:06:05,400 --> 01:06:06,540
community discussion these are all

1733
01:06:06,540 --> 01:06:08,970
things that are part of a dialogue

1734
01:06:08,970 --> 01:06:10,470
because we see ourselves at the

1735
01:06:10,470 --> 01:06:12,960
Foundation as being a community with a

1736
01:06:12,960 --> 01:06:14,640
foundation rather than a foundation with

1737
01:06:14,640 --> 01:06:17,280
a community and so all we are is just

1738
01:06:17,280 --> 01:06:19,950
stewards of the project because we have

1739
01:06:19,950 --> 01:06:21,570
the fortune to work there but we're

1740
01:06:21,570 --> 01:06:23,490
stewarding it on behalf of the community

1741
01:06:23,490 --> 01:06:25,620
which is giving us guidance on the

1742
01:06:25,620 --> 01:06:26,000
decision

1743
01:06:26,000 --> 01:06:27,740
we make and it can be a healthy tension

1744
01:06:27,740 --> 01:06:29,450
right some of the conversations that we

1745
01:06:29,450 --> 01:06:31,040
were and some of the data we were

1746
01:06:31,040 --> 01:06:32,330
looking at within the strategy

1747
01:06:32,330 --> 01:06:34,520
discussion that I spoke to earlier we're

1748
01:06:34,520 --> 01:06:36,050
not necessarily things that all of our

1749
01:06:36,050 --> 01:06:37,849
community members felt were necessarily

1750
01:06:37,849 --> 01:06:39,980
important and so we take this sort of

1751
01:06:39,980 --> 01:06:43,460
like short term long term where we feel

1752
01:06:43,460 --> 01:06:45,530
as though our responsibility is to be

1753
01:06:45,530 --> 01:06:48,140
looking at overall health and engage in

1754
01:06:48,140 --> 01:06:49,670
community and conversation about how we

1755
01:06:49,670 --> 01:06:52,010
might address challenges as we as they

1756
01:06:52,010 --> 01:06:58,790
arise thank you so much Yochai think it's

1757
01:06:58,790 --> 01:07:00,680
a miracle that Wikipedia works at all

1758
01:07:00,680 --> 01:07:02,300
for curating knowledge I think it's a

1759
01:07:02,300 --> 01:07:04,460
miracle that the community still has a

1760
01:07:04,460 --> 01:07:07,900
foundation that supports the community

1761
01:07:09,280 --> 00:00:00,000
[Applause]