Commons:Valued image candidates/Black-cowled oriole (Icterus prosthemelas prosthemelas) Orange Walk.jpg

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Black-cowled oriole (Icterus prosthemelas prosthemelas) Orange Walk.jpg

promoted
Image
Nominated by Charlesjsharp (talk) on 2023-04-12 17:29 (UTC)
Scope Nominated as the most valued image on Commons within the scope:
Icterus prosthemelas prosthemelas (Black-cowled oriole) showing back feathers
Used in Global usage
Review
(criteria)

current VIC for image showing chest feathers

Charles – I did not see reference to another scope with chest species for this bird and you did not provide a link. Either way, it is not germane to the issue here. Requirements for Value Image scopes are defined in COM:VIS and those are the guidelines to that define the validity of VI scopes which are an essential part of the VI rating.
You have a good quality image that is of better quality than the one you are competing against in this MVR and would vote for it if the scopes were the same.
Why have you made your VI scope too narrow with the addition of "showing back feathers” as unnecessary description? If you think it is important detail, it should go in the image description.
Why are you comparing an image you have identified as sub-species to an image with a higher taxonomy level of species?
Per COM:VIS – “If several species are impossible to distinguish visually, then the scope should be at a higher taxonomy level.” --GRDN711 (talk) 21:31, 17 April 2023 (UTC)--GRDN711 (talk) 21:31, 17 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Comment Charles While being calm is a welcome state of mind, clarity on your VI scope is needed here.
Are you stating that the yellow back feathers in this image support that this bird is of the Icterus prosthemelas prosthemelas sub-species as opposed to the I. p. praecox sub-species? Can you really compare it to the other MVR image VI with scope of Icterus prosthemelas species?
IMHO the extra description of feather coloration on chest or back is good information to support a VI nomination as I. p. prosthemelas sub-species (already has a VI), but it should not be part of the scope. --GRDN711 (talk) 23:21, 18 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Comment Hello LexKurochkin Overly detailed scopes tend to take the form of unique description that makes the image appear more valuable than it really is to Commons and can create multiple VI ratings for images of the same bird. Overly detailed scopes are specifically discouraged per COM:VIS.
“Note that scope is not a simple description of your image. Rather, it defines a generic field or category within which your image is the most valuable example.”
There is good reading in COM:VIS on too wide, too narrow (or overly descriptive), and just right scopes.
Further good reading is at COM:VIS Domain-specific scope guidelines for animals (includes birds) where the “General rule is: one scope per species…”. It goes on to allow identifiable sub-species and sub-scopes for identifiable male/female (fledgling, immature etc.) characteristics and specific behavioral aspects (nesting, flying etc.). All of these added sub-scope options are fine and in theory, it may be possible to have a dozen VI ratings for a given bird or animal.
IMHO when more description beyond these guidelines is allowed, the scope becomes too narrow and overly wordy. I have no problem with this extra information on chest and back feathers being presented as a reason to support the VI nomination (one on the non-mandatory fields in the nomination) for identification of this bird as representing a specific species or sub-species scope. --GRDN711 (talk) 23:02, 18 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Scores: 

 1. Commons:Valued image candidates/Icterus prosthemelas.jpg: -3 (current VI within same scope)  
 2. Commons:Valued image candidates/Black-cowled oriole (Icterus prosthemelas prosthemelas) Orange Walk.jpg: +3, -1 <--

 =>
 File:Icterus prosthemelas.jpg: Declined and demoted to VI-former 
 File:Black-cowled oriole (Icterus prosthemelas prosthemelas) Orange Walk.jpg: Promoted <--
--Milseburg (talk) 15:51, 24 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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