Category talk:Ariel (city)

Category:Cities in Israel

A certain IP user insists on taking out over and over again the categories which rely Ariel town to Israel. He claims that acc. to the int'l law Ariel is not in Israel. Weather or not so, this is NOT the issue here, and the only reason to leave these categories in, is that Ariel is de facto an Israeli town. Its Holocaust monument, police station and bus services to Tel-Aviv have nothing to do with the west bank, and the reader that is likely to be interested in those files, would not wish to compare them to the Holocaust monument in Nablus (yet to be erected) or the non existent bus service from Jnin to Eilat. Stop behaving as if Commons make the real world. It doesn't! Ori~ (talk) 20:37, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

NO! this is a very sneaky way of trying to legitimize illegal settlements on the West Bank, by trying to get them to appear as "normal Israeli" places.

They are NOT part of Israel, stop trying to annex them on Commons, when you cannot (legally) annex them in the real world. To say that Ariel is a part of Israel is a HUGE insult to anyone believing in basic human rights. And editors who try to push this view ought to be banned,

Tough! In the real world Ariel is already a part of Israel so we don't need commons for that. This is simply not the issue here... Ori~ (talk) 14:46, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

These issues have been discussed many times in various Wikipedias; there is no need to repeat them here. The conclusion is that legally Ariel is, at present, an Israeli settlement city in the West Bank. It may one day be part of Israel (if there is ever a political settlement), but at the moment it is not. Rd232 (talk) 00:30, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Might be better to make a Commons mini guideline/categorisation scheme and make a reference to it in the disputed settlements. This will come back (again and again) I am sure. --Foroa (talk) 06:22, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Maybe. I've no idea what that would like, or how to go about it. Rd232 (talk) 08:17, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Ariel of course is in the West Bank, that is under martial law since 1967. Israeli government nade life for Israelis there to look almost exactly like life in Israel itself. So many Israelis believe, like Ori, that it sould be considered as part of Israel. But even Israeli government is not claiming that. Israel never annexed the area where Ariel is, so it is not a part of Israel, and Ariel is not a city in Israel. Eman (talk) 21:39, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Ariel is a illegal settlements on the West Bank. But, de facto Ariel is a ordinary city in every way. The reader would benefit from the association with Israel, and you can add a comment on the category page that de jure it is not a part of Israel. Daniel B (talk) 08:50, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

Ariel is a city in the west bank. It is a fact and should appear in that category. It is also a city for Israeli only, and only Israelis live in it. Therefore, whether Legal or not (it is a legal city in Israel but may not be legal according to international law), it is an Israeli city. The undisputed fact is, that like any other city in Israel it recieves fund from Israeli government for schools and calture like any other city, and therfore de facto it is an Israeli cities, though not in Israeli anaxed territory. I belive the puprose of the category allines more with "Israeli cities", as Ariel does not comply with "cities in the Palestinian Teritoories". Another solution - a differenct category: "Israeli cities in the West bank" should be created for it. Deror avi (talk) 14:11, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

There is already Category:Israeli settlements in the West Bank, which it is indirectly a member of, via Category:Settlements in shomron‎. Rd232 (talk) 18:11, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

So maybe we should add it also there (like other big settlements that already appear there). Eman (talk) 21:01, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

Unlike other settlements, this is a city. I would create a category "Israeli cities in the west bank" as a subcategory to both "Israeli settlements in the West Bank" and "cities in Israel" Deror avi (talk) 07:16, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

It cannot be part of "Cities in Israel" because it is not in Israel. If you insist on the utility of it, then Category:Israeli settlement cities can be a subcategory of Category:Israeli settlements, and a "see also" from Category:Cities in Israel. And if you really want, "Israeli settlement cities in the west bank" can be a subcategory of that. Rd232 (talk) 12:32, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

I agree, Ariel should not be listed under Cities in Israel. As Eman pointed out, many Israelis have been convinced by their own government and media that Ariel is indisputably a city in Israel, but that is an artifact of the Israeli government's historical tendency to have its cake and eat it too, i.e. to settle Israelis in the West Bank but deny its Palestinian residents rights by not annexing the territories. We should, as always, tell it like it is, according to facts and laws, and avoid the common Israeli point of view. Ijon (talk) 06:43, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

I think Category:Israeli cities in the West Bank covers it. Rd232 (talk) 07:58, 24 January 2012 (UTC)