Category talk:Ferries by country

Rename to Category:Ferries by country of location

Reason

to differentiate from other "by country" categories for ships which are by country of registration

<preceding discussion moved from User talk:Stunteltje> Category:Ships by country seems to be by country of registration. All subcategories use "of". Category:Ferries by country uses "in". Is this category meant to be by country of registration or by location of the ferry? -- User:Docu at 03:34, 11 September 2009 (UTC) I didn't create the category, so I don't know the intention. But I use it as category for the location. Many ferries are registered elsewhere, so there can easily be a difference in country between the "Ship of" or "Passenger ship of" and the "Ferry in" for the same ship. Ferries are seen between two harbours, so a ferry in Finland can be a ship or passenger ship of Sweden. I have always a problem with choosing between ship or passenger ship. --Stunteltje (talk) 06:06, 11 September 2009 (UTC) We could rename "Ferries by country" to, e.g., "Ferries by country of location" or add descriptions to all country categories (a template could be added by bot). This would clarify things. -- User:Docu at 06:43, 11 September 2009 (UTC) I assume that this good suggestion cannot be realised after this discussion. On the English Wikipedia there is a Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ships and here a category for Categories in discussion. --Stunteltje (talk) 06:59, 11 September 2009 (UTC) Why would the projects at en.wp have any bearing on what our category names are? As for this situation, I would suggest the names Category:Ferries by location or ("by country of use" or something similar) and Category:Ferries by country of registration. — Huntster (t @ c) 22:57, 11 September 2009 (UTC) No other reason than to avoid people - seeing themselves as "specialists" - reverting such a change. I'll copy this discussion to the discussion on Category:Ferries by country. --Stunteltje (talk) 06:16, 12 September 2009 (UTC) </preceding discussion moved from User talk:Stunteltje>

• I don't see much use for Category:Ferries by country of registration, as we already have Category:Ships by country and all ferries are categorised in this category. "Ship of ..." and "Ferry in ...". If we use Category:Ferries by location these locations can be everwhere. Country, bay, sea, place. For me no problem, but is it according the categorising system? --Stunteltje (talk) 06:31, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
  • To some extent, I think Category:Ferries by line responds to that. We could have additional subcategories of Category:Ferries, e.g. Category:Ferries by ocean, but I'd rather leave the country categories in one set and give an indication in the category name, that it's done by country. -- User:Docu at 07:00, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
•  Oppose by country is good enough. Multichill (talk) 12:31, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

• Perhaps, but if no change is made, there needs to be clarification as to what this categories is for: country of registration, country of (primary) operation, or something else. — Huntster (t @ c) 21:49, 16 September 2009 (UTC)
• Maybe Multichill could be a bit more explicit why he opposes the move. This could help us clarifying the scope of the category. I just noticed that he added Category:Ships of Suriname to Category:Ferries in Suriname and to File:Tropenmuseum Royal Tropical Institute Objectnumber 60005654 Riviergezicht met de S.S. Albina afge.jpg (already in Category:Ships of the Netherlands). -- User:Docu at 05:44, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
  • This pretty much explains it. Multichill (talk) 13:13, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

•  Oppose no need to change. "By country of location" is not particularly enlightening. It must indeed be documented what the "by country" means. --Foroa (talk) 06:36, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
  • Ok, I will add category descriptions instead. Personally I think it's confusing that "by country" means registration in some cases, location in others, and sometimes both. Better wordings are obviously welcome. -- User:Docu at 06:41, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

•  Info. I added a template based description to Category:Ferries in Albania. The template is at Template:Category definition: Ferries by country of the vessel's location. -- User:Docu at 06:48, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
  • Ships are by definition mobile and have no fixed "location". I guess that it should be Home base/port, base country, ... but I would ask ship experts about the going name. --Foroa (talk) 07:29, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
  • After a little more investigation, it could be argued that the generic naming should be better "Ferries of xxx" to indicate the home base (which can be found anyway through its operator). The current name seem to imply where the ferries are operating, which in general is limited to one or two countries. So the documentation description could be "ferries operating in xxx country". --Foroa (talk) 07:39, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
    • I'm more interested in input based on the current categories, but thanks for stopping by to "vote" "oppose". -- User:Docu at 07:32, 21 October 2009 (UTC). Thanks for re-considering. Please read the comment by Stunteltje above (11 Sept). -- User:Docu at 10:05, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
      • I think that the confusion comes from the word "location", which in the Commons context generally means some sort of fixed "home" base, so changing form "Ferries by country" to "Ferries by country of location" does not clarify for most of us. So I think that in Template:Category definition: Ferries by country of the vessel's location, it might be better to change location by position/route/passage/fare/line. Maybe it would be clearer to change the subcategories in "Ferr(ies/y) sailing/fares/routes/crossing/lines in xxxx". Don't know what the common naming is for fares/routes. An additional problem is that the category seems to be interpreted as ferry ships, ferry lines and possibly operators. --Foroa (talk) 11:14, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
        • Maybe "photos of ferries taken in country x" makes it clear. -- User:Docu at 11:25, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
          • As I stipulated before: I don't see much problems when we have Ships of and Ferries in for the same ships, used as ferries. "Ships of" are grouping files of ships registered by country, "Ferries in" are grouping files of ships, used as ferries on a certain location, in most cases but not necessarily a country. Category:Ferries in Rotterdam can be a a sub-category of Category:Ferries in the Netherlands. Even Category:Ferries between Schiemond and Charlois or Category:Ferries between Veerhaven and Hotel New York can be a sub-category of Category:Ferries in Rotterdam. For me it is flexible enough, as long as we make a difference between the ship herself and her function. --Stunteltje (talk) 11:26, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
        • I expanded the description in Template:Category definition: Ferries by country of the vessel's location. Hope this clarifies it. -- User:Docu at 09:30, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

• Thanks for clarifying Multichil, but I think categories for people are more complex in a different way. In any case, I removed {{Move}} and will try cat descriptions instead. -- User:Docu at 15:15, 21 November 2009 (UTC)