File talk:Coat of Arms of Grand Duchy of Finland-holding sabre.svg

Versions

So, now there are two different versions of this coat of arms. It is correct that lion shouldn't have armoured arm and it should be holding the saber. About the crown, there are many versions of it. As seen here the crown should have eagle on it. But in this version there's different crown. And in these stamps and coin it is also different. --Fenn-O-maniC (talk) 15:25, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

I am no expert on this matter, but it seems that there are different lions. The one trampling on the sabre is the version used before 1809 and after 1918, and the one holding the sabre in its left paw is the version used during the Grand Duchy (the Russian version). If the Russian version was generally used in the 1800s, I think it should be depicted on this file as a correct rendering of the coat of arms used in that time period. It also seems that the arguments are in favour of the Russian version, and the modifications are unsubstantiated. --Pxos (talk) 21:35, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

The current version is far superior, any minor problems like the armour and the position of the sabre can and should be corrected, but reverting to an inferior rendtion should stop. Fry1989 ^eh? 21:43, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

What do you mean by "superior"? Better vector graphics? More convincing eagles and nicer colours? The original png-file, while not so great in appearance, seems to depict the correct coat of arms that were actually used. Now this "superior version" is used in many articles and it is not accurate. I do not find the minor problems minor at all, especially as they are not corrected, but rather were modified to the wrong direction when user Trajan 117 decided to "rework" on this file. --Pxos (talk) 21:59, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

The most reliable pictures of Finnish coats of arms are shown in seals and stamps of various government bodies of that time. Many of them can be found online in the database of Finnish National Archives. Some remarks about the details: Lion without an armed hand and holding both the sword and sabre (and drawn in a style dubbed by some people as a "poodle lion") was typical of that time: examples in 1, 2, and 3. The crown on the shield should be grand-ducal (= 3 visible arches), not royal (= 5 visible arches), as Emperor of Russia was the Grand Duke of Finland, not the King of Finland. I have seen crowns with and without the Russian eagle (still searching for online sources). Oraivio (talk) 13:12, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

Given the wide variety of possible renditions, one would hope that coats of arms uploaded to Wikimedia Commons would clearly specify whether they are (1) historical documents of a CoA that was actually used at some point of time (used when? used by whom? taken from what source?), or (2) modern artistic renditions (by whom? based on which exact blazon, from what source?). — Different Wikipedia articles will need different kinds of images so it is very important that such distinctions are clear from file description (and file name, to a reasonable extent). Once a specific rendition is uploaded, avoid overwriting it with substantially different content. --Jmk (talk) 09:05, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

I uploaded the "correct" "inferior" version as Coat of Arms of Grand Duchy of Finland-holding sabre.svg. Probably this version should be renamed and this name used for a redirect. Edit war over the redirect will be less harmful, but a random redirect is of little use. --LPfi (talk) 11:41, 3 January 2013 (UTC)