File talk:Latuff nazi camp 2.gif

 

Category

This cartoon is about the Israeli wall, so category:Israeli West Bank barrier is obviously an appropriate category. User:Drork is on his anti-Latuff crusade, and has removed it twice now. /Pieter Kuiper (talk) 09:49, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

Is it? I thought it was comparing the Palestinians to the Jews in the Holocaust, or was I wrong? Drork (talk) 09:53, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

In any case, that category shows pictures and maps of the barriers, it does not includes any other material. Drork (talk) 09:54, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

The cartoon's main subject is that it criticizes the Israeli walling in of Palestinian areas by comparing it to the Nazi ghetto walls and concentration camp fences. Category:Israeli West Bank barrier is clearly a proper category. /Pieter Kuiper (talk) 10:03, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

I am sorry, but your argument is not convincing. I am also sorry that you try to introduce political statements into category which includes only descriptive and documentary material. Drork (talk) 10:42, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

An edit war won't help you here. Drork (talk) 12:57, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

Drork has now four times removed category:Israeli West Bank barrier from this image which is about the Israeli barrier, and he is uttering accusations about edit warring! /Pieter Kuiper (talk) 13:01, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

If you keep abusing that category and introducing irrelevant files into it, I'll continue to correct you wrong-doing. It is a pity I have to clean up your mess, but apparently I have no other choice. Drork (talk) 13:36, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

I think it's perfectly reasonable to have a picture of the West Bank barrier in Category:Israeli West Bank barrier. // Liftarn (talk) 17:20, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

And now Drork has done it again, claiming "no consensus". Which just means that he does not agree. This is obviously is cartoon about the West Bank barrier. At Qalqilia, as theartist explained. /Pieter Kuiper (talk) 20:41, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Considering we have at least two editors that think this picture of the West Bank barrier should be in Category:Israeli West Bank barrier (or rather in Category:Israeli West Bank barrier in art) and the only one disagreeing is Drork (with no argument except "I don't like it") I think we do have a consensus. // Liftarn (talk)

Not quite, Drork argues that Category:Israeli West Bank barrier contains "pictures and maps of the barriers, it does not includes any other material". That is not an argument against inclusion as this is a topic category, but the existence of the subcategory Category:Israeli West Bank barrier in art is, as the file belongs there. The cartoon is now right where it belongs. Paradoctor (talk) 15:09, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

On Liftarn's comments, I would note that Malcolm Schosha has also been involved in removing the category so clearly he is also opposed even though he's not actually taken part in discussions here. He, and others though, have taken part in the discussion at File talk:West Bank Barrier cartoon by Latuff.png which relates to this image simply in a different file format. A straight count of the votes there shows eight people in support of the category and three people against. From that I would suggest that consensus exists to support the inclusion of this category and any removal would go against that consensus.

Nothing in the comments made in the edit summaries of the recent edits where this category was removed seem to really justify ignoring the apparent consensus. Drork said that "There is no consensus that thee image fits the category" which I don't consider accurate whilst Malcolm Schosha has said "already discussed" which I would. It has been discussed both on this talk page and the talk page of the PNG version and neither shows consensus to remove the category, rather the opposite.

Of course Malcom has been quick to point out that my own opinions on this matter could influence my actions as an administrator which I would accept is a reasonable concern. I would however hope that he and others can recognise that my motivation here is to try to help this dispute to be resolved, not to enforce my own opinions and that is why I've repeatedly urged involved users to discuss this matter rather than edit warring. The current protection of the image page exists to prevent users from edit warring and encourage users to discuss instead. Anyone who considers that inappropriate can of course raise the issue with the wider community.

The issue as I see it now is settled. Consensus exists to support the inclusion of this image in the this category. Anyone who removes the category despite that will have to provide a very good reason for doing so if their edits aren't to be considered effectively vandalism and would be well advised to discuss it further before making any change. Adambro (talk) 15:39, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Proposal at the PNG version

As this proposal is about this image's twin, those not watching the PNG version might want to participate there. Paradoctor (talk) 23:06, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Category:Anti-Zionism?

In what way is any form of anti-Zionism shown in this picture? // Liftarn (talk)

Polls on categorization

I would like to propose two different polls to sound the opinion of people on the categorization of this image, in the light of COM:CAT. Categorizing Latuff's cartoons has been the source of countless dramas, and some victims, and it is time to reach a consensus and take a reasonable decision. With these polls I'm addressing two different categories: Anti-Semitism and Anti-Zionism. Please feel free to add others. The questions will be in the form: Do you think that Category: Xxx is adequate for classifying this image?. Please give your opinion using the  賛成 and  反対 templates, and keep your comments short. Long comments belong to the discussion sections above. Pertinent sources to the three concepts are w:Anti-Semitism and w:Anti-Zionism Alvesgaspar (talk) 07:34, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

Anti-Semitism

 質問 -- Do you think that Category: Anti-Semitism is adequate for classifying this image?

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•  反対 as there is no antisemitism pictured in the picture. // Liftarn (talk)
•  反対 en:Thoughtcrime, not antisemitism. --Starscream (talk) 13:14, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
•  反対 Railwayfan2005 (talk) 19:11, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

Anti-Zionism

 質問 -- Do you think that Category: Anti-Zionism is adequate for classifying this image?

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•  反対 as there is no criticism of the existance of the state of Israel. // Liftarn (talk)
•  賛成 Zionism is criminal ideology. The difference between national socialism (nazism) and zionism is insignificant. Only the number of victims is, momentarily, a little less. --Starscream (talk) 13:13, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
•  反対 Railwayfan2005 (talk) 19:11, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

Racism

 質問 -- Do you think that Category:Racism is adequate for classifying this image?

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•  賛成 since it does contain criticism of racism. // Liftarn (talk)
•  反対 Jews and Palestinians are the same race. Even ethnogenesis is similar. --Starscream (talk) 13:16, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
•  反対 Railwayfan2005 (talk) 19:12, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

Islamophobia

 質問 -- Do you think that Category:Islamophobia is adequate for classifying this image?

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•  反対 This cartoon is helpful for Muslims. --Starscream (talk) 13:18, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
•  反対 Railwayfan2005 (talk) 19:11, 21 October 2010 (UTC)