Commons:Quality images candidates/Archives January 04 2017

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Consensual review[edit]

File:Mallnitz_Seebachtal_Wasserfall_B_06.jpg[edit]

  • Nomination Waterfall in the Seebach Valley, High Tauern National Park, Carinthia --Uoaei1 05:04, 30 December 2016 (UTC)
  • Promotion
  •  Oppose the water have been overexposed and is now only pure white and without details --Christian Ferrer 06:39, 30 December 2016 (UTC)
  •  Info New version uploaded. I ask for further opinions. --Uoaei1 10:05, 30 December 2016 (UTC)
  •  Support - This version looks like a pretty good photo to me, and it's OK for there to be some white water. -- Ikan Kekek 23:37, 30 December 2016 (UTC)
  •  Support per IK. --A.Savin 16:11, 1 January 2017 (UTC)
  •  Support As above.--Peulle 20:19, 1 January 2017 (UTC)
Total: 3 support (excluding the nominator), 1 oppose → Promoted   --Peulle 21:50, 3 January 2017 (UTC)

File:Medi Aero, Panama.jpg[edit]

  • Nomination The Medi Aero is being brought in by the tugs into Newcastle Harbour (NSW, Australia) to the coal-loading docks. --Adamdaley 20:55, 28 December 2016 (UTC)
  • Decline
  •  Oppose Left part is too unsharp (f/4 makes no sense to me here). Also a bit tilted ccw. --Uoaei1 22:38, 28 December 2016 (UTC)
  • The review in my opinion has gone way overboard in being analysed. I would like to open my image up to discussion. Adamdaley 06:48, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
  • The way you do that is simply by changing the "Decline" to "Discuss". However, I  Oppose this photo being promoted to QI at this point, because as Uoaei1 says, the left side of the ship is too unsharp. -- Ikan Kekek 08:26, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
  • People have to remember that this ship is moving. The majority of images I see on the here are still objects and have something slightly wrong with them. I understand what both of you are saying, but the ship is in motion. Images are never 100% perfect. Nothing is. Adamdaley 09:34, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
    • I've been thinking what you've both said about it being "unsharp". For someone to print this out professionally it would be 50.8 cm by 15 cm. The 1,280 by 369 ... looks pretty bloody good to me. Sorry if I sound biased. But slight flaws can be forgiven as we are not true professionals here. Adamdaley 23:30, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
  •  Oppose I am sorry Adamdaley, but I have to agree with the other reviewers. The ship is simply too soft in focus on the left hand side. I do not think it has to do with the ship movement as in that case, there would be motion blur all over the ship and your shutter time is short, so this should not be a problem. Rather, it is a problem with your camera settings or handling. As has been pointed out f/4 is a rather large aperture, but actually with the focal length you have and the sensor, this should not severely compromise your depth-of-field, try for yourself using this online DOF-calculator. But at this large aperture you may also loose lens fidelity close to the edges of the photo depending on the quality of your lens, or maybe you unwillingly rotated the camera slightly while pressing the shutter? f/7 or f/8 is often a good choise when doing outdoor photography in good light. Yes, we are amateurs at Commons, but we try to learn from each other to improve our skills, and for that purpose the reviews at QIC are an excellent learning ground. I have learned so much here over the years by taking on board the comments of reviewers. So, we are not here to treat a nomination unfairly, and we are used to miving objects as well. In addition to the soft focus, the image is also tilted unacceptably much. This is evident if you inspect where the water/land line is before and after the ship. -- Slaunger 08:15, 30 December 2016 (UTC)
  • I am unable to go to f/7 or f/8. I can only go as high as f/5.6 at the moment with the lens that came with the camera. I am going overseas (on January 9, 2017) to the Philippines where a lens will be waiting for me. Unfortunately it only goes up to f/5.6 as well at 300mm. It seems that I cannot find a lens that is capable of going up to f/7 or f/8. Maybe you are right, I have only had this camera for about 10 days and when I noticed the blurriness I was hesitant about the image being blurry. Other than that, I do have a certificate in photography at an introduction level. Adamdaley (talk) 08:34, 30 December 2016 (UTC)
    • Adamdaley I am very, very sure that with your 18-55 mm lens you have now, you can pick a smaller aperture than f/4. A smaller aperture means a larger f-number, like f/8 or f/13. Rather it is that your current lens cannot have a larger aperture than about f/4 (depends a bit on focal distance). You need a larger aperture when you have very little light or deliberately want to have a shallow depth of field, where you blur our the background to let the main subject stand out. It is large apertures that costs in lens as it imposes harder requirements to the optics of the lens. You have only had your camera a few days. It takes times to learn how to handle it and become familiar with the settings. It is an interesting journey, but be patient. I created a category for your ship by the way. It appears to be the first photo of that ship on Commons. Congratz. :-) -- Slaunger 08:50, 30 December 2016 (UTC)
      • I have sharpened the image on the left side. Adamdaley 04:26, 31 December 2016 (UTC)
        • Good work in decreasing the unsharpness, but I'm still not ready to support the nomination for QI. Ikan Kekek 07:41, 31 December 2016 (UTC)
          • What else can I do? I'm learning how to use Photoshop. I'm out of options, really. Just really being semantical here because it's ever so slight. Adamdaley 08:31, 31 December 2016 (UTC)
            • Adamdaley: I do think this picture will pass nomatter how much editing you do. If the information is not there in the base material you can't really bring it out using Photoshop. One obvious improvement =you can to though is to fix the tilt. That could be another training execise for you in Photoshop, and if you do that I will be happy to nominate it at as a valued image candidate, where it is likely to pass as the most valuable image within the scope: Medi Aero (ship, 2016). If you have lightroom and have made the shot in raw format you have better changes of salvaing minor defects in an image, by the way, especially issues with lightning. -- Slaunger 12:34, 31 December 2016 (UTC)
                • Tilt? Ever thought the background is an illusion or misleading? I cannot fix something that people think is wrong with it no matter how much editing I do. What I mean is, the right hand has more buildings closer to the water than compared the left with buildings set back from the water. Adamdaley 13:47, 31 December 2016 (UTC)
                  • I put this "tilt" down to the ship being empty and that the heavy end just happens to be the back end with all the extra weight is. Adamdaley 14:21, 31 December 2016 (UTC)
                    • Adamdaley Can we agree that the ship appears to be seen almost exactly from the side? Can we then also agree that you would expect that the line where the ship meets the water ought to be very close to horizontal? If we can agree on this, you will also realize the image is tilted in the clockwise direction. -- Slaunger 15:46, 31 December 2016 (UTC)
                      • Yes I agree with what you are saying. At the same time, you have to consider the position I was in relation of the ship and the line of the ship as it is going into port. When a ship is empty in this case it is, the weight is not evenly distributed. Hence the weight all the weight mainly at the rear. The tripod was level, the ship is at several angles. Which have been addressed. Adamdaley 16:11, 31 December 2016 (UTC)
  • Adamdaley: This will be my last comment. I understand perfectly that the ship itself is not levelled in the water surface, maybe due to an uneven load, and as a consequence of that the horizontal lines in the ship will not and should not be horizontal in the image. That is not what I am trying to address, but the correct horizontal alignment of the surroundings. Even with an uneven load, the water-ship line should be approximately horizontal, and that is not the case. You seem very passionate to get this exact image promoted. It's normal. Only about 1/3 of my uploads are QIs despite using quite some thought on each photo. -- Slaunger 19:28, 31 December 2016 (UTC)
    • Slaunger ... As I said, the horizontal alignment of the other side of the harbour is misleading and is an illusion. You can only trust me on this when I say that. If I could change the horizontal line of the other side, and make it that it is not an illusion, then I would, by saying that ... this image will not become a "Quality Image". All because the assessment team wanted to make the perfect image out of something that never existed in the first place. Adamdaley (talk) 21:26, 31 December 2016 (UTC)
      •  Comment - "Assessment team"? What team? Did I miss a team meeting or something? User:Christian Ferrer takes a lot of photos of ships that have been promoted to QI, and some to FP, too. You might want to look at his photos, many of them of ships on the move, to see what he does. But I don't think that arguing that we individuals who've chosen to pass judgment on some photos here should adopt lower standards is going to carry the day, nor in my opinion should it. The great majority of images nominated here are promoted as it is. -- Ikan Kekek 22:17, 31 December 2016 (UTC)
        • Ikan Kekek Maybe a poor choice of description, but you get the idea of what I'm trying to say. The "people who assess the images" I should have said. Of course not "adopt lower standards", just make the other side of the harbour appear uneven due to the ship being uneven in the water. That's not logical. I get it, the unsharpness, that's been sharpened a little. Now want me to make the other side of the harbour uneven for the ship that is uneven because it is empty as it coming into the harbour/port? I'm no magician nor am I wanting to become one with this image. Adamdaley 22:42, 31 December 2016 (UTC)
          • Your words are important on a medium that has nothing but words and images, and I'm telling you how you are coming across to me, and probably to the other people on the "assessment team". Instead, you are trying to argue that I should support your photo because of x and y, but I already made that decision. I will support your photos when I think they meet QI standards. Those standards aren't going to change greatly because you have a different view of what they should be, especially when it concerns one of your own photos. That's just the way it is. Happy New Year, and keep submitting photos; just don't expect them to get promoted 100% of the time. -- Ikan Kekek 23:40, 31 December 2016 (UTC)
            • Ikan Kekek ... I can understand what you are saying. At least I'm happy with the image regardless of what other people think about it. Adamdaley 23:44, 31 December 2016 (UTC)
              • Ikan Kekek how am i suppose to improve the tilt? What is your suggestion? Because i don't know how to improve it. Adamdaley 04:22, 1 January 2017 (UTC)
                • I hadn't noticed the tilt, and I couldn't tell you what to do about that. -- Ikan Kekek 11:22, 1 January 2017 (UTC)
      • What is wwrong with it then? So i can fix it. Adamdaley 20:01, 1 January 2017 (UTC)
        • As previously stated, the left side is too unsharp for QI. -- Ikan Kekek 04:51, 2 January 2017 (UTC)
          • Whole image has been sharpened. Adamdaley 07:03, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

 Comment Considering the size, I suppose it is a panorama of more than 1 photo ad the left one of the original photos was not sharp. This would explain the sudden change from sharpness to unsharpness on the left side. --Llez 09:08, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

  • Llez ... no it's a single image. I'm not sure why the left is not sharp. Adamdaley 09:58, 2 January 2017 (UTC)
  •  Oppose I totally agree that the left side is too unsharp for QI, the whole ship needs to be fine for that. I see that you are still learning to work with a photoshop program. Like many other beginners with such program you seem to think that any fault in a picture can be fixed by using it. I'm sorry to tell you that the advertising for those programs lie. Things can only be fixed if the information is there from the beginning, the program can't add or recreate details lost in blur. The sharpness button only create some contrast between existing pixels in the photo. I'm sorry for you that this photo didn't turn out as well as you had hoped, we all have photos like that. The only thing is to move on and remember to take many photos the next time and use many camera settings for them so that we can see which one was successful when we look at them later on the monitor. Also to clarify for you, there is no team reviewing the photos here, we who submit photos here review each other's photos. It says so clearly on the instructions page that those who nominate photos should also review; that includes you as well if you feel like it. W.carter 11:35, 2 January 2017 (UTC)
Total: 0 support (excluding the nominator), 4 oppose → Declined   -- Slaunger (talk) 19:22, 3 January 2017 (UTC)