Category talk:Passarola

Difficulty

Moved from User talk:Tuvalkin#Passarola

Hi, I'm having difficulty understanding the inclusion of several files and subcats placed in category:Passarola. Some items seem to infer that Passarola is (only) the name of the flying ship /airship of Bartolomeu de Gusmão (inspired by that of Francesco Lana de Terzi). The subcats Passarola (Henrique Manzo) and Passarola (José Wasth Rodrigues) feature flying ships that differ from that of Bartolomeu de Gusmão. Can you please help to resolve these ambiguities /conflicts, perhaps by creating one category for the named flying ship, plus another for generic flying ships in Portuguese. MTIA, PeterWD (talk) 10:14, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

I can do that, yes — so much that I already did that, a few years ago. There’s the weird, half-mythical contraption created by Bartolomeu de Gusmão in the early 1700s (which you say was inspired by Francesco Lana de Terzi), and several artistic depictings of it — three of them created by two 20th cent. Brazilian painters. As you say, those look different from the classic depictions used elsewhere, all stemming from one single engraving, of doubtful accuracy; I can only presume these are ment to be fresh interpretations of the original description, in writing. There is no need to separate these alternative depictions from those based on the engraving, I think. As for a category «for generic flying ships in Portuguese», that’s a bad idea, against COM:CAT: aircraft in any language should be ctaegorized under Category:Aircraft. -- Tuválkin ✉ ✇ 13:04, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for that, but it doesn't explain how the image at category:Passarola (José Wasth Rodrigues) has exactly the same appearance as those at category:Francesco Lana de Terzi, so surely there should be some connection mechanism available for Commons users. PeterWD (talk) 15:38, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

I didn’t check Category:Francesco Lana de Terzi, @PeterWD: I presumed miscategorization on your part and I apologize. I will recategorize now.

As for the why, I presume that Rodrigues just picked up another ancient aerostate image to inspire his re-imagining of the Passarola.

-- Tuválkin ✉ ✇ 09:39, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for your honesty - this has all been a result of my disappointment at so much mis-categorization of airships and balloon aircraft. For example, so many editors /uploaders can't understand that an airship has to have a means of directional change, and a hot air balloon has to have an evident source of heating the air, so they categorize all balloon aircraft as hot air balloons, including those before the Montgolfiers. PeterWD (talk) 12:50, 14 January 2024 (UTC)