Commons:Featured picture candidates/File:Bee arriving at hive sq.jpg

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Voting period is over. Please don't add any new votes.Voting period ends on 4 Aug 2019 at 23:35:58 (UTC)
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Bee arriving at hive
  • Category: Commons:Featured pictures/Animals/Arthropods/Hymenoptera
  •  Info Interestingly, there's loads of pics on Commons of bees in flight near flowers, frozen in the air with a focus trap, 1/4000 s shutter speed and sophisticated equipment. For bees approaching the hive the number of photos is less immeasurable (though the share of edited versions much higher), however the dynamics of bee flight is rarely to bee seen (with longer shutter speeds the wings very often are invisible). This point-and-shoot "portrait" is technically not 100% perfect because it's not staged but I found no comparable photo on Commons, and I hope you understand why I think "wow" when I look at this image. Created by Chianti - uploaded by Chianti - nominated by Chianti -- Chianti (talk) 23:35, 26 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Support -- Chianti (talk) 23:35, 26 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  •  CommentIf you think it’s the best image in scope, try Commons:Valued_images. Considering the excellent insect photos we’ve got, this is technically too far below standards, and even a bit overexposed IMO. The wooden structure in the lower left is distracting, I added a crop suggestion (which, btw, moves the bee in question closer to the rule-of-thirds). --Kreuzschnabel 11:27, 27 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    •  Comment Thank you for your feedback, but FP is not for the technically best pictures. I'd never nominate this as a QI, I'll leave that to the focus-trap-artificial-background-flash-and-studio-equipment-excessive-photoshop techno guys I already mentioned and who have produced loads of excellent pictures of – nothing but single – bees. Sometimes I have the impression that people commenting and judging here are confusing technical quality and editing effort with image content.
Take the POTY 2016 for example: technically far from perfect, the tower in the background between their heads is way too unblurry and distracting, but the photographer didn't take a step to the left and nonetheless managed to catch an incredibly great moment and won deservedly.
I am far from claiming my image should compete for POTY but if you find another image on Commons where you see the contrast between an individual bee and its swarm symbolized by the difference of light and shadow combined with the difference of focus and out of focus plus the individual in flight and other bees sitting at the hive then please post the link. I didn't find a single one, and the reason is: it's incredibly hard to depict such contrast because even the equipment freaks cannot arrange and stage everything. Bees are social animals and the fact that only single bees are shown on the FP page is a shame either for the photographers or for the people judging FP nominations.
Shooting a technically outstanding photo of a single Hymenoptera sitting on a flower is not hard, more than 20 FPs in the category prove it. And they are not really special, please read the introduction of FPC – also the part with the difficult subject.
Show me an image on Commons of a bee in flight or even only sitting where the light part of the body is situated in front of a darker background and the darker part of the body in front of a lighter background. Show me one where you can see that – and how! – a bee moves its wings in flight and still its eye and antenna appear sharp on average desktop resolution. Ask yourself why none of the tech freaks was able to produce a FP where more than only one bee can be seen.
I'm not sure what you mean with "overexposed", no one can avoid overexposure of sunlight reflection on shiny surfaces.
I took a wider crop because I wanted to keep more information about the beehive, but I'll think about your suggestion.--Chianti (talk) 15:37, 27 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Oppose -- agree Kreuz and narrow DOF Seven Pandas (talk) 12:06, 27 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    •  Comment I am not sure if you are familiar with basic principles and dependances of DOF, lens aperture and blurred background. You can either have a blurred background to isolate the subject or a wide DOF to get everything sharp. See the POTY I linked above and what I wrote about the message / content of the photo. That all the bees except one are in the shadow and, in addition, blurry, is intentional and essential for the idea of the image. Plus: even in a FP and POTD like Bee mid air.jpg the DOF isn't wide enough for the insect itself.--Chianti (talk) 15:37, 27 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Oppose The main subject is too small and unsharp, also because the background is unattractive. --Cayambe (talk) 14:05, 27 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
 Comment Background for flying insects now has to be "attractive"? Care to elaborate what you specifically mean or post the link for an example in the FPs of a flying Hymenoptera (Apidae) with an "attractive" background? Thank you.--Chianti (talk) 15:37, 27 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Comment Hello Chianti and welcome to the FPC, even if you have got off to a bumpy start. You sound quite upset, as do many users who come here for their first nomination. The usual way to FPC is to start at COM:QIC, that way you are eased into the hard conditions and "technical" language we use here. My first suggestion is that you start by nominating your photos for COM:QI, that way you will get tips and help along the way. As one of the "techno freaks" you seem to hate so much, I will try to answer some of your questions (I can't call myself an "equipment freak" since I have the cheapest camera of everyone here, not even a real DSLR). I have some time today, so I'll see if I can clear up a few things for you.
All images at FPC are judged both on a technical level and an emotional. Sometimes the emotional wow for a photo is so great that it beats a poor technical level. Mostly we need both wow and technical level for an FP. POTY is voted for by all users on the wiki-project and the biggest part of those have no clue about photography, they just vote for the pretty/funny picture, so don't let that confuse you.
What people here choose to photograph is simply what they have access to in one way or another. Seeing single bees at flowers is what most can find, going to a beehive is another thing. There might not be any hives nearby or, like me, they might not want to go near one without protective clothing. Still even if your photo is the first here of a bee at a hive, it needs to have a bit more technical quality and composition. Your photo is far from the only "first" photo that gets 'opposes' here. Many FPs are the result of days of test shooting and hundreds of photos at different light and angles, until the right one suddenly appears. I once stalked a rusty chain for three days until I got it right and got my FP.
It is hard to know how to help you or suggest things for you since there is no EXIF data on this or your other photos. That way, I do not know at which level your photo skills are or how you photograph, but you have mentioned a few photo terms so I think you have some knowledge. Most of the work in getting an FP takes place in the editing of the photo. Do you take your photos in jpeg or raw format? That makes a huge difference if you want to make really good photos. You asked how to shoot shiny objects on a bright day, well you step down the EV on your camera, sometimes as much as -1 or -1.5 and raise it again in the post processing. That is a good trick that will keep away overexposed areas. It will also help you not to get the color in the photo desaturated by the strong light.
In this photo, it would also have been much nicer to better see the bees at the hive opening so that it clearly shows that the bee is heading home. Now it is too much in the shade. A very "high tech" way of dealing with such things is to hold something white (like a piece of paper) and reflect a bit of light into the most shadowy part. There are also very bright objects on both sides of the hive opening and they are a bit distracting. There is no shame in toning those down in something like Photoshop.
I have made a rough simulation of what your photo could look like with some of the things I'm talking about here. Since I don't know if you will be insulted my tampering with your photo, I have not uploaded it on Commons by just put it in my Dropbox where you can take a look at it. Here is the link. I hope that we will see your photos at QIC and later here again. New photographers with new ideas and areas to photograph are well liked. :-) You might also want to take a look at COM:PT where a lot of photo tips are collected. All the best, --Cart (talk) 17:58, 27 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Oppose unfortunately, it is a very nice capture but I think it would only be FP if at least some of the hive itself were in focus as well as the bee in flight. I also agree with Cart that some of the bright areas on both sides of the hive need to be toned down - if you shot in RAW, I would suggest pulling back the highlights in Photoshop. And indeed, photos at Picture of the Year are not necessarily a good guide as to what makes an FP. Colin's photo was a well-deserved winner, but when it was nominated at FPC it gathered many opposes and passed by a relatively narrow margin. FPC is very much interested in technical quality - I'd argue sometimes a little too interested, but there we are. Cmao20 (talk) 18:54, 27 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Oppose Compostion. Technical quality. Hello Chianti, I hope you found Cart's constructive comments above helpful. Please don't underestimate the community here. To accuse FPC folk of being focus-trap-artificial-background-flash-and-studio-equipment-excessive-photoshop techno guys is unwise. I look at most animal FPCs and I'm struggling to recall one photographer that fits that description! Charles (talk) 20:31, 27 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Oppose Per others--Boothsift 05:16, 28 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Oppose A real Catch-22 of a photograph ... it would be ideal with just the bee and little of that distracting unsharp background, but then it would be too small for FP, and it's really hard with this sort of subject to walk that tightrope successfully. I do appreciate that you made the effort, though. Daniel Case (talk) 20:30, 29 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Confirmed results:
Result: 1 support, 6 oppose, 0 neutral → not featured. /Basile Morin (talk) 09:20, 1 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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