File talk:Deepweb graphical representation.svg

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Iceberg image[edit]

(moved from User talk:X1\)

Hi there. Let's talk about File:Deepweb graphical representation.svg

First of all, I'm sorry for spending the time earlier to explain why the image was wrong. I thought we built wikis based on citations and proving things were true then disputing sources. Perhaps different processes are relevant for images, so I'm sorry about this.

In short, there deep web (a search term) and the dark web (darknet websites like Tor) are often conflated. This image is a popular example of this confusion. I've studied this confusion across countless pieces of media and I will link out or even copy-paste as many sources as you like.

Can we have a dialogue?

Deku-shrub (talk) 10:33, 31 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

As related to two Commons:Deletion requests/File:Deepweb graphical representation.svg; notifying Yann, Infrogmation, Ranjithsiji, AshFriday, bjh21, & Gbawden.
As Lotje added the image to en:Deep web, also notify. — Preceding unsigned comment added by X1\ (talk • contribs) 22:28, 5 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Deku-shrub: why are you contacting me at my Talk page after the (two) deletion discussions? If you think there is *still* a problem with the image, why not correct it? While I am against confusion through conflation (if there is conflation), I am also against wasting my time and that of others. I continue to believe you are reading too much into the image: there is "surface web" above the proverbial water surface, with "deep web" and "dark web" below the proverbial water surface. "Deep web" and "dark web" don't have to be "apples to apples". What I get from this image is there is much below the proverbial surface (which is what casual, common users "see"); the iceberg is a reference to the idiom, "just the tip of the iceberg".
Also related, let me point *again* to the un-responded [1][2][3] discussions at en:Talk:Clearnet (networking) (includes en:Talk:Deep web). X1\ (talk) 22:29, 5 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Deku-shrub: Things are indeed different on Commons, so it might help if I explain how things work here. We support not only Wikipedias, but also other sites in the Wikimedia world, and beyond. This means that we try not to interfere in those projects' decisions. On the other hand, we also don't want to make it unnecessarily difficult to make uncontentious changes. What this means in practice is:
  • If you think the image can be salvaged, and you think your changes are uncontroversial, you can use "Upload a new version of this file" to replace it with your version. If anyone disagrees, they can revert your changes, and then under COM:OVERWRITE you should treat the changes as controversial and not reinstate them.
  • If you think the image can be salvaged, but you think your changes are controversial, you can upload your file to Commons under a new name. Then you can follow the usual procedures on whatever Wikipedias you care about to replace uses of the file. This essentially hands the question of which version is better over to the Wikipedia communities.
  • If you think the file is unsalvagably bad, and every other project agrees (as demonstrated by their stopping using it), then you can ask for it to be deleted.
--bjh21 (talk) 12:29, 6 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Deku-shrub: The file makes distinctions between the "Deep Web" and the "Dark Web". If you wish to make the distinction more overt, you should submit an image of your own devising, perhaps one which portrays a clear boundary between "Deep" and "Dark". Do you know how to use photoshop? AshFriday (talk) 01:40, 7 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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