File talk:Time zones of Europe.svg

Montenegro and Serbia need a mutual boundary. -- Denelson83 05:20, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

For quite a while now... --93.86.147.103 18:10, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Meridians on map?

Could meridians be added, please, to illustrate the W/E 7°30' and E 22°30' cases which are discussed? Thanks in advance.--Matthead 16:51, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

I like this suggestion, but I'd prefer a complete 7.5° grid, with the two you suggested in bold. --Redeemer (talk) 20:26, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

I came here to suggest the same thing, but it probably applies to more maps like this. — Christoph Päper 19:01, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

White water

Currently, the lakes are a different color to the ocean: their white while the rest of the sea is transparent. Whenever someone edits the border changes, can they change the color as well? ZanderSchubert, 07:59, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Iceland

Why Iceland is marked as it won't be an European country? 83.13.216.44 10:38, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

More relevantly a recent change has incorrectly turned Iceland from light blue (WET, no DST) to dark blue (WET, DST).

Montenegro

Could someone update the map with the minor addition of Montenegro's post-independence border please?- _J.Logan`^t: 15:03, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

Russia

Please change the colour of Russia (includins Kalingrad) to lighter colours since it stopped to have DST. Japf (talk) 20:50, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

done. --Insider (talk) 21:56, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Belarus also moved to all-year UTC+3. Corazon1 (talk) 16:36, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

Done. --Amakuha (talk) 17:59, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

Faroe Islands

The Faroe Islands observe WET (WEST in summer), therefore need to be in dark blue. Could someone who knows how to do it please update the map? -- Picapica (talk) 17:41, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

Kosovo

Please separate Kosovo from Serbia, as it gained full souvereignity 12. September 2012.--212.149.48.42 15:08, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Crimea time

Crimea has moved forward to MSK: [1]. I'm no great shakes at SVG editing, or else I'd change the map myself, but for someone with expertise, it should be a simple fix... -Kudzu1 (talk) 21:25, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

I created an updated file, but looks like I cannot overwrite this one. thumb|Time Zone map with the latest changes in Crimea

But does this map follow de facto or de jure? Crimea is internationally recognized as part of Ukraine, thus it should be UTC+2. A.h. king (對話) 09:18, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

Presumably both versions are relevant, if de facto matches what folks living there actually use, and de jure matches some Stalinist decree in use for a few decades. –Be..anyone (對話) 12:27, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

• Crimea uses Moscow Time (UTC+3 the whole year): 1, 2, 3 (Ukrainian Source!) --Brateevsky {talk} 18:12, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

• For Crimean Autonomic Republic — to show the de-facto moot status — suitable painting in gold color (EET/UTC+2) with shading (some dashed/hatching)!!
  — Such variant will be the most consensual.
  

Quote from the lawyers of Russia (in russian Lang): «...Кроме того, отмечают правозащитники, Крым является оккупированной территорией, и, согласно нормам международного права, Россия не может полностью отменять ... законодательство, действовавшее на момент начала оккупации, и заменять его своим. --Antonyahu^(對話) 15:52, 19 July 2016 (KYV/UTC+2)

Donbass

I don't think we should be colouring the separatist controlled areas of Donbass in a different time zone to the rest of Ukraine. The separatist's self-declared states are not recognised by any country and subject to an ongoing armed conflict. They are not functioning states, unlike say South Ossetia or Northern Cyprus. Many countries have comparable insurgencies holding territory and it would be fairly ridiculous to show all of these on maps. I also don't think it really is showing the de facto situation. Those in the separatist-controlled area of Donbass who oppose the insurgency likely continue to use Ukrainian time in there daily lives. The areas are also dependent on humanitarian aid and barely function in an administrative sense. According to the UN OHCHR, about half the population of Donbass has been displaced out of the region. The UN OHCHR Report on the human rights situation in Ukraine 16 November 2015 to 15 February 2016 stated that people that lived in separatist-controlled areas were experiencing "complete absence of rule of law, reports of arbitrary detention, torture and incommunicado detention, and no access to real redress mechanisms". If this was terrorists in Chechnya, I don't think we would be showing it. Long-term, is it possible that these areas will become functioning states, but right now they are certainly not. Given they are excluded from List of states with limited recognition (and instead listed at List of active rebel groups), I can't imagine the editors on the English Wikipedia support showing such areas. Rob984 (對話) 11:04, 18 July 2016 (UTC)

To add, I realise uploading an alternative version is an option, but I don't think any Wikipedia language project should be showing these areas. Also it is better to avoid multiple versions for different POVs. I am hoping we can come to agreement here so this file can be amended. To be clear, I do agree with showing the de facto situation where there is a dispute between sovereign or at least functioning states, such as in the case of Crimea. Rob984 (對話) 11:12, 18 July 2016 (UTC)

I agree. No separate statehood in the occupied Donbass! Ukrainian Donbass should be painted like the rest Ukraine state (EET)!
For Crimean peninsula, to show the de-facto moot status, suitable painting in gold color (EET/UTC+2) with shading (some dashed/hatching)!! — Such variant will be the most consensual. --Antonyahu^(對話) 15:45, 19 July 2016 (KYV/UTC+2)

Possibly, but I don't think it is really an injustice showing it entirely gold. As far as I know, Crimean people, along with the Crimean authorities, use this time zone. Even if you consider Crimea part of Ukraine, it is using this time zone, despite being contrary to the law of Ukraine. Ignoring the Russian annexation, the de facto situation makes sense in this case. That said, I don't oppose dashed or hatching. Rob984 (對話) 22:43, 20 July 2016 (UTC)

OK, dashed or hatching atop gold color — it's a compromise solution for Crimea. Donbass — merely gold color.
But, I'm not very professional in raster and vector graphics.. for instance... If you would like a little help, for instance... it would be very good! Then there will be proper and correct legend of colors. --^ℵntonyahu(對話) 14:45, 22 July 2016 (KYVT/EEST)

I am sure there is an easy way in Inkscape, but I'm not aware of it. I have added alternating colours but it is rather tedious. I will have a go. Rob984 (對話) 12:24, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

Tedious, but done (: Rob984 (對話) 12:51, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

This map is supposed to show time, not recognition of anything. If there are no clocks with Kiev time in Crimea or Donbass, then the map should clearly show so. Hellerick (對話) 14:07, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

It could be argued those who identify as Ukrainian in Crimea, may continue to observe Ukrainian time. According to the referendum, at least 4.5% of the population opposed joining the Russian federation. There are likely to more given the referendum was not recognised by the OSCE, which would certainly discourage Ukrainians from voting so not to legitimise the vote. As for Donbass, it is an area of Ukraine under an insurgency. Without any real administration, the population is free to observe whatever time zone they like. Recognising declared time zones of ongoing insurgencies for is pretty ridiculous. If ISIS declared a different time zone to Iraq, would we colour their held territory differently? I think not. Rob984 (對話) 14:58, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

I think I am just going to upload the version with Crimea as disputed at another title so it can be proposed at each language Wikipedia individually. Rob984 (對話) 15:04, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

I uploaded the new version at File:Time zones of Europe (Crimea disputed).svg. Further discussion on whether Crimea should be disputed or just de facto can be had at each Wikipedia. Rob984 (對話) 13:15, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

Can the edit warring stop now Antonyahu? I created a second file which can be used in place of this one. You cannot modify a file on Commons without support of the various contributors. The weight of your argument is irrelevant here, because files do not need to be factually accurate. If you want your change to the file to be reflected on Wikipedia you will need to gain consensus on Wikiepdia. I sympathise with your argument but you are now being disruptive. Rob984 (對話) 11:25, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

Turkey

http://www.timeanddate.com/news/time/turkey-scraps-dst-2016.html --NatigKrolik (對話) 12:48, 8 September 2016 (UTC)

Sealle, please update the file (Turkey=lightgreen) or cancel protection of the file. --Insider (對話) 06:02, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

Tunisia and Algeria

Please add colors for Tunisia and Algeria, since they both use Central European Time (UTC+1), without summertime, even if they are in Africa [2] [3] [4] [5]. --Helmoony (對話) 15:52, 27 September 2017 (UTC)

That might well be correct, but they are not in Europe. There is File:Time Zones of Africa.svg which lists those time zones. This map is only for Europe, it does not really matter what other countries outside of Europe refer to their time zones as. Rob984 (對話) 14:11, 28 September 2017 (UTC)

@Rob984: Thank you. --Helmoony (對話) 15:06, 29 September 2017 (UTC)

Crimea

Crimea is disputed part of map, correct image should apply with the reference about disputed status of that land. Map should not be regarded by "De facto" or by "De jure" because WM projects neither its users are judje for that. Wikipepia projects are not the place for war/annexation/pro-Putin propaganda. Ukrainian legislations implies another time zone there. The reference about disputed status of that land required. Alex Khimich (對話) 18:08, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

Well, regarding this particular map there is a long-term consensus regarding usage of de facto time. When the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus (non-recognised by all but Turkey) used different time than rest of the island, this was shown without any hatching. Bests, --Seryo93 (對話) 18:29, 19 March 2021 (UTC)

Returned to depict real status of en:Political status of Crimea. — 以上未簽名的留言是由該使用者加入的： Alex Khimich (留言 • 貢獻) 19:10, 10 April 2021 (UTC)

You actually miss the point. It doesn't matter of any "recognition" (TRNC, for example, is not recognised by anybody except Turkey - almost Crimean situation except for lack of outright annexation), yet it had its own time depicted regardless of any recognition. --Seryo93 (對話) 19:43, 10 April 2021 (UTC)

Just to note here that I have previously blocked Alex Khimich and today I blocked ThebeOkonma for a week for mindless reverting against consensus which is clearly expressed at this page. Apparently, these Ukrainian users think that the best way to get their hand is to revert until the opponent gets exhausted. I am not actually an opponent, I am neutral on the issue, but the consensus is clear, and I am not going to tolerate this warring. If they continue, longer blocks will follow.--Ymblanter (對話) 07:50, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

• Just to note that User:Ymblanter is from Russia and has certain disruption of any COI about Crimea. Alex Khimich (對話) 12:34, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

  This is incorrect, I am not from Russia. There is absolutely no COI from my side. (Actually, there were no COI even if I were from Russia unless I were a ministar-leve Russian bureaucrat). So absolutely nothing prevents me from blocking you again if you continue edit-warring.--Ymblanter (對話) 12:36, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

• Not a lawyer but, as far as I know from ICANN, especially the tzdb maintainer Paul Eggert, currently Europe/Simferopol is recorded as RU+UA, means that both Russian and Ukrainian tzdb files are available for Europe/Simferopol, and the external users had to pick up one if they love to. --Liuxinyu970226 (對話) 08:09, 17 August 2021 (UTC)
  • True, but that doesn't change the fact, that this Europe/Simferopol tz is permanent UTC+3, which is exactly what this map shows. Belarus, for example, is undoubtedly independent state, yet painted the same pale green color as nearby parts of Russia. Likewise, Kaliningrad Oblast, which is a part of Russia, painted differently from its other territory on this map. One might ask: why? Well, because the color is not about national boundaries, but about time zone applied here and there. National boundaries are shown by lines, and in this regard Crimea dispute is already displayed by using dashed (rather than solid) line on the line of contact at the Isthmus of Perekop and Arabat Spit. Bests, --Seryo93 (對話) 11:21, 20 August 2021 (UTC)

Caucasus

I propose to partially expand the map to the borders of the Caucasus (at least displaying the Georgian territory of Abkhazia). Рагин1987 (對話) 11:50, 19 November 2022 (UTC)