File talk:Voiced alveolar lateral fricative.ogg

Accuracy

@Leonel Sohns: Care to specify why the result of your reversion is more accurate than Adamsa123’s version? -- Tuválkin ✉ ✇ 08:51, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

@Tuvalkin: This is revision by Karmosin~commonswiki as of 15:23, 15 April 2005. /Leonel Sohns 14:27, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

@Leonel Sohns: In Karmosin~commonswiki's sample, instead of purely pronouncing a voiced alveolar lateral fricative [ɮ] alone he mixes it with an alveolar lateral approximant [l] as well at the end of the sample. Besides my reversion being more accurate, I would even say that the sample provided by Karmosin is wrong due to this.--Adamsa123 (talk) 16:44, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

TFighterPilot's and Adamsa123's versions are indeed more accurate, but COM:OVERWRITE mandates us not to overwrite files with substantial changes. @Adamsa123: I suggest you upload your version as a new file. In fact it appears you've overwritten other IPA demonstrations as well. I suggest you re-upload them too. Nardog (talk) 16:51, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

• @Nardog: COM:OVERWRITE doesn’t command, it advices — commands are for bots. Now, you are right about the language of that policy, but it should not alone decide this matter. If it’s true that COM:OVERWRITE warns us against loss of valuable data and recommends separate uploads instead, other policies, such as COM:INUSE, advice against changes doen in files in use. In this case changes were made in a file that is in stable use in an article (added to it after the previous overwriting), knowing that the reinstatied incarnation is less accurate, and no effort was made to make the now overwritten version available under a different filename. The letter of COM:OVERWRITE was respected, but its spirit and the interests of both Commons and Wikipedia were not. -- Tuválkin ✉ ✇ 23:02, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

• @Adamsa123, Karmosin~commonswiki, TFighterPilot, Leonel Sohns, and Nardog:  Done: All three versions are now on separate files:
  • File:Voiced alveolar lateral fricative.ogg:
    restored to its more stable version (by Adamsa123), available in 2015-2020 and prefered upon its inclusion in the English Wikipedia article.
  • File:ɑː˨ɮlɑ˦.ogg:
    the quirky original version, by Karmosin~commonswiki, available in 2005-2011, to safeguard the raised concerns.
  • File:Voiced alveolar lateral fricative (fast).ogg:
    the first attempt at correction, by TFighterPilot, available in 2011-2015.

-- Tuválkin ✉ ✇ 16:34, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

@Tuvalkin: Then why haven't you updated the attribution? Nardog (talk) 10:55, 17 October 2020 (UTC)

• @Nardog: I thought I did. Feel free to correct, or let me know what needs to be updated. -- Tuválkin ✉ ✇ 14:15, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

Other files

Also, what about the other files Adamsa123 have overwritten (Labiodental ejective fricative.ogg, File:Voiceless alveolar lateral fricative.ogg)? In case of Labial-palatal approximant.ogg, Adamsa123 overwrote it but the original file was also impermissible on Commons, since it was not from the UCLA Phonetics Lab Archive like it's claimed on the description page, but from the Course in Phonetics website (see [1], which explicitly says "permission for their use outside the site cannot be given"). We have a similar case with Alveolar lateral flap.ogg. We can simply delete the original files, but then how would we know the license to host the new files under? Nardog (talk) 10:55, 17 October 2020 (UTC)

• @Nardog: I don’t know much about Phonetics nor about audio files, but if I can be of help, let me know. -- Tuválkin ✉ ✇ 14:15, 18 October 2020 (UTC)