User talk:Donald Trung/Archive 378

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Wikipedia translation of the week: 2022-17

The winner this Translation of the week is

Please be bold and help translate this article!

School of the Air is a generic term for correspondence schools catering for the primary and early secondary education of children in remote and outback Australia where some or all classes were historically conducted by radio, although this is now replaced by telephone and internet technology. In these areas, the school-age population is too small for a conventional school to be viable.

(Please update the interwiki links on Wikidata of your language version of the article after each week's translation is finished so that all languages are linked to each other.)

About · Nominate/Review · Subscribe/Unsubscribe · Global message delivery 01:37, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

Wikidata weekly summary #517

Here's your quick overview of what has been happening around Wikidata over the last week.
  • Discussions
    • Closed request for adminship:
    • New requests for permissions/Bot:
  • Tool of the week
    • Wikitaxa is a software of taxonomy data written in R.
    • User:So9q/fatcat-link.jsscrip is a userscript for looking up fatcat! DOIs. It adds a link to the fatcat! database in the Tools' section on items.
  • Development
    • Lexicographical data: Worked on showing the name of language variants in the language variant selector and added the new information box to help people get a better understanding of lex. data.
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You can see all open tickets related to Wikidata here. If you want to help, you can also have a look at the tasks needing a volunteer.

The Signpost: 24 April 2022

News, reports and features from the English Wikipedia's weekly journal about Wikipedia and Wikimedia

Turning an image into various shades of blue

--Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 00:08, 27 April 2022 (UTC)

Skrobarczyks Plead Not Guilty to Violation of Anti-Peonage Laws
(OLD.).

Signature (Siggy) to prevent automated archiving. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 10:33, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

Hanoi school in 1900
(OLD.).

"Source" field.
Source links. LINK 🔗.

Signature (Siggy) to prevent automated archiving. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 10:33, 16 April 2022 (UTC) .

Rạp Quảng Lạc xưa
(OLD.).

Signature (Siggy) to prevent automated archiving. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 10:28, 16 April 2022 (UTC) .

S. E. Hương Đề
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"Source" field.
Source links. LINK 🔗.

Signature (Siggy) to prevent automated archiving. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 10:27, 16 April 2022 (UTC) .

August Revolution in Hanoi
(OLD.).

Signature (Siggy) to prevent automated archiving. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 10:25, 16 April 2022 (UTC) .

Công trình 61 Trần Phú, góc nhìn từ tài liệu lưu trữ
(OLD.).


Signature (Siggy) to prevent automated archiving. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 10:24, 16 April 2022 (UTC) .

130 năm Hội Trí tri Bắc Kỳ
(OLD.).

Signature (Siggy) to prevent automated archiving. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 10:23, 16 April 2022 (UTC) .

Tonkinese elites
(OLD.).

Note to self: Add this to the "Society of the Nguyễn Dynasty" Wikipedia article draft.

Signature (Siggy) to prevent automated archiving. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 10:23, 16 April 2022 (UTC) .

Tsingtau postcard
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Note to self: Find a way to add this amazing postcard at Wikipedia. Adding it here as I have way too many tabs open in my Ecosia browser. 😅

Signature (Siggy) to prevent automated archiving. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 10:22, 16 April 2022 (UTC) .

Nationaal Coördinator Terrorismebestrijding en Veiligheid (NCTV)
(OLD.).

Signature (Siggy) to prevent automated archiving. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 10:16, 16 April 2022 (UTC) .

Zorgzaam010 logo's
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Signature (Siggy) to prevent automated archiving. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 10:16, 16 April 2022 (UTC) .

VVE-010 logo
(OLD.).

Signature (Siggy) to prevent automated archiving. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 10:15, 16 April 2022 (UTC) .

Trường Thể dục đầu tiên ở Hà Nội
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"Source" field.
Source links. LINK 🔗.

Signature (Siggy) to prevent automated archiving. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 10:14, 16 April 2022 (UTC) .

Dr. R. Allan Barker's Korean cash coins
(OLD.).

Signature (Siggy) to prevent automated archiving. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 10:14, 16 April 2022 (UTC) .

The Heberden Coin Room
(OLD.).

"Source" field.

Information:

  • Period Korean Person Sunjo (Choson) - 朝鮮 純祖 - 순조, 1800 CE – 1834 CE (ruler/authority) Mint Hojo - 戶曹 - 호조 (Korean)
  • Denomination - 1 mun
  • Metal - brass
  • Technique - cast
  • Dating - 1814
  • Weight (g) - 4.8
  • Diameter (mm) - 30
  • Acquisition method - gift
  • Acquisition date - 1947
  • Source - C. T. Gardner
  • Acquisition - creditLaird
Source links. LINK 🔗.

Signature (Siggy) to prevent automated archiving. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 10:13, 16 April 2022 (UTC) .

花錢 一 真實成交表 (KKNews.cc)
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"Source" field.
Source links. LINK 🔗.

Signature (Siggy) to prevent automated archiving. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 10:13, 16 April 2022 (UTC) .

Korean mint marks on Numista
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After this I'll re-focus again on Wikipedia as I probably shouldn't be "putting too much hay on my fork"...

Signature (Siggy) to prevent automated archiving. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 10:12, 16 April 2022 (UTC) .

Contact Legal@wikimedia.org

Signature (Siggy) to prevent automated archiving. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 10:11, 16 April 2022 (UTC) .

Hanoi football 🏈 match

Find the origins of this photograph. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 15:25, 27 April 2022 (UTC)

French Cochinchinese "Tổng đốc"

"Source" field.
  • [ ] ([ Ecosia search] / [ Source image]).
Source links. LINK 🔗.

--Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 10:17, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Check his Wikipedia biography to look for more pictures.

--Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 14:48, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Tonkinese hospitals

--Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 14:54, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

French Cochinchinese "Tổng đốc"
(OLD.).

"Source" field.
Source links. LINK 🔗.

--Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 10:17, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Check his Wikipedia biography to look for more pictures.

--Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 14:48, 18 April 2022 (UTC) .

Tonkinese hospitals
(OLD.).

--Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 14:54, 18 April 2022 (UTC) .

Reply draft

This is a draft field for a reply to another user at the Wikimedia Commons.

Regarding the photograph, I was researching more photographs from the 1920's and 1930's and came to the conclusion that that photograph must've been from the 1950's~1960's so it's most likely copyrighted and ineligible to be uploaded to the Wikimedia Commons. The reply here will be a bit lengthy so if you don't want to read all or not reply I'll understand.

Just out of curiosity I searched "Ngày mất Nước" in Ecosia to see if I could find some memorial events for it, perhaps I used the wrong term to search for it as only the most bitter descendants and survivors of the VNCH still use this term as even those that spent years in concentration camps and became refugees have softened and stopped using the term. But I just wanted to see if there were any pro-VNCH protests, like those organised by the Cộng Đồng Việt Nam Tỵ Nạn Cộng Sản Tại Hòa Lan at the The Hague embassy. However, the comments I found on several Facebook posts really made me realise how important our work here at the Wikimedia Commons and at Wikipedia is debunking myths and correctly documenting information in a neutral way. One thing that I found interesting is that both the Overseas Vietnamese and Pro-Communist Vietnamese are vehemently nationalistic, just in very different ways. For example the top comment on one post about the opening of a "Saigon Walk of Heroes" in the United States of America was of a pro-Communist stating "Dân tộc Việt Nam là một" and then went on a diatribe how all heroes in Vietnamese history were already canonised and that trying to canonise "divisive agents" will harm Vietnamese unity and that Communism was the natural progress of Vietnamese history. Meanwhile another commenter (an older gentleman) stated that the flag of South Vietnam has been the symbol of the Vietnamese nation and unity since the Thành Thái Emperor. Meanwhile the idea that "Vietnamese people are one" dates back from the French domination period and was a reference to how Vietnam had been divided into three (3) countries by the French and I found old newspaper articles by nationalists speaking in the same way, this language remained in vogue in face of both the partition of Việt-Nam and later tensions by bitter conquered South Vietnamese and Việt Công that felt betrayed by the influx of Northern administrators and cultural domination. That is to say that if you're opposed to someone saying something like "Nước Việt Nam là một, dân tộc Việt Nam là một”1" then you're against Vietnamese nationalism altogether and you become "an enemy of the concept" (in other words "an enemy of Việt-Nam"). As is common among nationalists.

I saw the unveiling of the Tượng Đài Thuyền Nhân Việt Nam tại Hòa Lan in Almere, Flevoland and was surprised how similar this is to how these exact organisations function with the Non-Hispanic Vietnamese-American and Hispanic Vietnamese-American communities, it seems to be a common trend amongst the Overseas Vietnamese loyal to the VNCH. What's interesting is that the narrative around the Thành Thái Emperor has changed, all contemporary accounts of him were very negative and only Monarchists were supportive of him simply out of blind loyalty, but after 1975 he started being praised by Overseas Vietnamese in a form of nationalism.

One thing that quickly gets lost in nationalist historiography is nuance, namely the nuance of motivations. Things like a "Zeitgeist", "Volksgeist", and "Kulturgeist" are said to inhabit the minds of heroes, interestingly enough Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel was an anti-nationalist himself but basically all modern Communist and Nationalist rhetoric is heavily based on concepts coined and / or popularised by him and his followers. Anyhow, it's not always easy to read someone's actual motivations from their words and or actions without broader context and nothing exists in isolation. Nothing about the independence of Tĩnh Hải Quân (靜海軍) actually reads like a nationalist struggle, but today Vietnamese nationalists see it as "the breaking of chains". This kind of reminds me of a funny anecdote from a few weeks ago.

A couple of weeks ago I was going to a Shanghainese friend who lives two streets away from me, while riding my bicycle on a bridge I saw a small plastic bottle, now these bottles have 15 Eurocent of Statiegeld (Pfand) on them, since my eldest son likes to play with coins and likes collecting coins like me, I decided to go back and take the bottle to later bring to a supermarket for some coins. Two young blonde boys aged 10~12 were watching me and suddenly started giving applause and when I looked back showed me their thumbs up. Now in their eyes they saw a random man taking rubbish from the ground to make the community cleaner, but in my eyes I did a selfish act to benefit myself. This is the difference of perspective, this is actually "the beauty of Capitalism" in its rawest. Adam Smith's The Wealth of Nations and his other works actually generally tend to refer to Liberalism as the ugliest and least romantic economic system, a Mercantilist does so more the benefit of their country, later we have Socialists and Fascists who wish to redistribute the wealth of the bourgeoisie for the benefit of the working class, these are all romantic ideals but in reality the ideology that's the ugliest (Liberalism) is the ideology that produces most wealth, it's because in Liberalism everybody just acts in their own interests and they have the freedom to do so. People trying to maximise their own benefits leads to others also being benefitted in many ways, now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that this is always good, Liberalism has many flaws (namely that the consumer can never be 100% informed on all decisions, the creation of cartels for maximising benefit, natural monopolies on necessary resources, among many others), but the thing is that Liberalism has made the modern world and it has made so by allowing people to act selfishly which benefited the entire global community.

My Shanghainese friend told me that when she was learning "Marxism classes" she had a very disinterested teacher, the professor actively didn't like the classes on Marxism and told her students to just watch Americans films together in class with her. I don't think that such behaviour could still exist in iPhone-centric China today, but just over a decade ago this was how at least one subversive professor at a Shanghainese university taught her Marxism classes.

Nationalism isn't necessarily something different, the rebels that fought the Chinese weren't doing so because "their nation" would benefit, they saw personal benefits from fighting them, likewise you cannot simply find the motivations of "traitors" through the nationalistic blindfold.

Mainland Chinese view the Korean War very differently from the Americans they fought, namely in the United States of America the Korean War has largely been forgotten, but in the People's Republic of China it's remembered as "a glorious war where the Chinese people helped the Korean people fight against American imperialism". If one asks a Korean what the American were doing there they would say "eating babies" and "throwing children and corpses in wells", meanwhile "Heroic China" is praised for "helping the Korean people fight the American Imperialist invaders". Obviously, not a single American film or TV series on the Korean War tells the story like this, these stories also don't tell the situation from a non-American experience either, the focus is always on the American soldier and their fight with Communism, to the American they were trying to keep Korea free from Communism while the DPRK says that "the Korean people want Communism but the Americans were trying to prevent real democracy". Maybe today some Americans believe that Korean people (and not just a few Workers' Party elites) want Communism, but in China and Korea this is the official version of history.

Obviously, as South Korea ("the American puppet regime") still exists we actually do hear the stories of the South Koreans and anti-Communist Koreans in general, this is the main difference between Korea and Vietnam, in one case there actually still are two sides to tell the story. I don't even think that South Vietnamese refugees actively try to tell their stories to people outside of their circle and their direct non-Vietnamese relatives (often through marriage). Once in a blue moon I see some South Vietnamese refugees trying to interact with non-Vietnamese about their history, but their monuments, their museums, their books, their stories, Etc. are clearly designed for their children and later descendants, they clearly try to keep the memory of the QLVNCH and to a lesser extend the VNCH alive. This website specifically for Vietnamese in the Netherlands is completely in Vietnamese.

I think that while trying to spin different stories into a narrative above I actually made an incoherent mess... So perhaps a much more recent anecdote can tell what I'm trying to say better...

Yesterday I was at Madurodam, The Hague and in it I was witness to some interesting presentations. By the way, you visited Keukenhof literally one (1) day after I went there. Anyhow, inside of Madurodam I saw a number of presentations, Madurodam is actually an interesting theme park as it was built as a World War II monument / Holocaust monument and unlike the other World War II and (especially) Holocaust monuments which are deliberately ugly (often resembling melting people or disgusting "cube people" or something else, often explained by Art Historians as being due to "the fact that the pain felt by the survivors of the Holocaust is not something that can be described without shocking the listener") the monument built for George Maduro is surprisingly very beautiful. Though there's still an ugly statue of a melting George Maduro outside of the theme park. The park describes itself as "the most fun war monument in the world" and excluding the explanation of Georg Maduro's life in the beginning of the park almost nothing would make one think of it as a war monument. The park was built by the parents of George Maduro, a decorated Dutch soldier who was a Portuguese Jew from the Caribbean that was killed by the Germans in a concentration camp. Now what's interesting is how the nationalism is presented in a park, I would describe the park as being "Unapologetically Dutch nationalistic", or even "a monument of pure nationalism".

What's interesting about the presentation about Georg Maduro is to view how the translations worked, the spoken text was completely in Dutch and narrated the life of George Maduro moving from Curaçao to the Netherlands, fighting the Germans, being killed by the Germans, and how and why his parents dedicated to build the theme park in his memory. What's interesting is that during the war and Holocaust scenes the Dutch narrators constantly talked about "fighting the Germans", "resisting the Germans", "killed by the Germans", "the unstoppable German War Machine", and "the German occupation", while the English subtitles simple spoke about "fighting the enemies", "resisting the enemy", "killed by the enemy", "the unstoppable Nazi War Machine", and "the occupation". The English subtitles treated the Germans like Lord Voldemort and I can only speculate as to why. (To be fair the Cộng Đồng Việt Nam Tỵ Nạn Cộng Sản Tại Hòa Lan is also translated as the "Associatie Van Vietnamese Vluchtelingen in Nederland (AVVN)" in Dutch and "Vietnamese Association of Political Refugees in the Netherlands" which also seems to indicate to me that they wish to show a different message to Belgophone and Anglophone people than they do to Vietnamophone people / Việtophone people.) In general I did like the presentation despite not really agreeing with the things said, as it was made by grieving parents who lost their only boy to the Holocaust.

Inside of the park were a number of attractions showcasing a very nationalistic interpretation of history. One was about the formation of the Republic of the Seven (7) United Netherlands, another about the founding and loss of New Amsterdam, and another about the Netherlands fighting "de Waterwolf". When discussing the founding of the Netherlands the characters used terms like "Our country" and talked about it being built on "the freedom to be who you are, the freedom to believe what you want, and the freedom to express yourself as you wish" and that the Dutch Revolt was "the first (1st) revolution of its kind" and that "the Netherlands will be the first (1st) country founded on the principles of freedom". The founding of New Amsterdam also had an interesting part of how much New York is still based on the culture of the Dutch Republic and that "the character of the Netherlands persists in the United States of America" trying to claim the origins of American freedoms in the Dutch Republic. A gross historical inaccuracy is that they correctly identified the enemies as "the English" yet used the flag of the Kingdom of Great Britain several decades before it was founded. With the "Waterwolf" attraction they explained how the Haarlemmermeer (Harlem Lake) was turned from a giant lake that once threatened Amsterdam and Harlem. The attraction talked about how taming water is "the character of the Dutch spirit" not too different from how Vietnamese nationalists describe Vietnamese history as a type of "Volksgeist".

What surprised me the most of the above is how these things can happen in the Netherlands in 2022, not just because Dutch historiography has greatly changed to be neutral, but because such blatant display of nationalism is seen as "Neo-Nazi", in fact I don't think Madurodam's among the greatest ironies in the world, namely that a memorial for a Holocaust victim is perhaps the epitome of what everything modern Dutch people associate with "Neo-Nazi's". Such blatant displays of nationalism are usually shamed as people in Europe (excluding France) see any form of nationalism as "similar to Hitlerism", yet the most nationalistic place in the Netherlands is a Holocaust monument. It's something that still baffles me.

Even societies that have a hatred of nationalism and national pride like the Netherlands and avoids talking about any form of nationalism like the Netherlands have a strong nationalistic historiography that persists. For this I don't think that we can truly extinguish the nationalist historical content, only bring them in the wider context of history and point out their flaws. Some kid who got interested in history because of Madurodam may later grow up to read articles on history at Wikipedia's, it's for people like them that I like to write, it's for people like them that I would like to debunk myths.

== National awakenings ==

One concept that is very common amongst the peoples of the Ottoman Empire are "National awakenings".

--Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 07:40, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

Cut from the draft.

", and this museum about the VNCH basically only covers the QLVNCH. ".

Initially wanted to include an anecdote of some people that went to the same university as me studying the "History of Vietnamese Communist Party" and "Ho Chi Minh Thought" and despite being brilliant students failing because of ideological disagreements. Also wanting to make a comparison between Nationalist historiography and Religious historiography, and how in the Netherlands people used to study four (4) distinct versions of history, namely Fatherlandic History / Fatherlandish History, Church History, Biblical History, and General History. While today Dutch students simply learn "History". Though this likely happened because of more skills being offered in the Dutch school system as opposed to a simple shift in how we view history, as evidenced by the nationalistic presentations at Madurodam.

I also wanted to write a bit about how "the theme park presentations seemed very dystopian to me", but this is more because presentations from Dystopian works like Disney Pixar's Wall-e were made parodying these types of presentations and not vice versa, so me associating them with "dystopic euphemisms" is a product of me consuming popular culture parodying them rather than actually experiencing what is being parodied.

--Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 12:18, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

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