Commons talk:WikiProject Heraldry and vexillology/archive/2014

Lorraine

Why there is no Category:Coats of Arms of the Duchy of Lorraine, or one for the County? Will it be correct to categorize Category:Lorraine in pretence to that effect? What about something out of Category:Coats of arms of Lorraine or Category:Coats of arms of René I of Naples? Danny lost (talk) 23:45, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

Category:Ukrainian trident in heraldry

This category needs discussion. Which name is the better. Anyway this symbol is in very disorder through several sub Cats. -- Perhelion (talk) 19:53, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

Coats of arms for Croatian regions

• 
  Coat of arms of Croatia
• 
  Coat of arms of Dalmatia
• 
  Coat of arms of Slavonia
• 
  Coat of arms of Istria (raster)

Hello there all. I was directed here from COM:GL/I to request assistance regarding producing accurate, heraldic, vector images for Wikimedia of the four principal regions of en:Croatia. What you see up there are the best that we have currently.

• The coat of arms of Croatia (the region proper, not the republic) is a chequy Gules and Argent.
• The coat of arms of Dalmatia is azure, with three crowned golden leopards' heads affrontés Or, langued in Gules. Traditionally the heraldic leopards' (lions') heads are maned, langued, frowning, facing forward, and roaring. I'm told the current version we have (as seen up there) isn't heralidic, and that the escutcheon is improperly formed.
• The coat of arms of Slavonia is Azure, a fess Gules fimbriated Argent surmounted by a mullet of six points Or, a marten Sable courant proper in chief.
• The coat of arms of Istria is azure, a capricorn statant Or, attired and hoofed Gules. Some versions have the goat walking (passant), but this is inaccurate.

We are currently working on enWiki to cover the regions of the country properly, and are hoping we could have the coats of arms in uniform appearance, with the same basic escutcheon shape and colour shades. Thanks in advance for any and all assistance. --DIREKTOR ^(TALK) 00:47, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

Copyright on Spanish Coa (deletion warning)

This seems a bit questionable, because there is no Spanish permission/ copyright template. For example every Spanish Coa could be arbitrarily tagged as speedy deletion. Commons:Deletion requests/File:Escudo de Chipiona.svg → User: Perhelion (Commons: = crap?) 12:26, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

 Done

Merge Template:Blason-fr-en-it → Template:COAInformation

→ Cross talkpage link → User: Perhelion (Commons: = crap?) 12:00, 28 July 2014 (UTC)

Need help identifying widely used British coat of arms

Hello, I've uploaded a coat of arms illustration extracted from a scan. The scan is one of many, many instances of this coat of arms, seemingly used widely in UK government-related documents in the 30s and 40s. However, browsing these various documents didn't give me much clue as to the common source of this particular version. His Majesty's Stationery Office? Central Office of Information? Home Office? Due to this I'm not sure how to name or categorize the logo as anything other than an illustration. (If you happen to spot a higher resolution version, please do upload that one or let me know.) Thanks, djr13 (talk) 10:02, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

These are the Royal Arms of the UK in a government version. As far as I know, the Royal Arms and any derivatives are devised by the College of Arms, so I suppose that should be the author. De728631 (talk) 17:59, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

Category:Heraldic arrangements

start up, I hope you like the title. I put it into Cat:Coats of arms by blazon, besides attitude W!B: (talk) 19:33, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

Category Heraldic mantling vs Heraldic lambrequins

There is an open question to Category:Heraldic mantling vs Category:Heraldic lambrequins of supposed redundancy. Please let know you opinion there. ↔ User: Perhelion (Commons: = crap?)  18:03, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

I think we are stuck between what a thing IS and what it is CALLED. The short drapery that hangs down from the torse and protects the helmet and back of neck and upper shoulders from the sun IS a lambrequin. It is CALLED mantling. That in itself would not be a problem except that many people mix it up with the shoulder to floor length garment called the mantle. Although, I personally prefer to call it a lambrequin, I think the tide of history is against me. The College of Arms, Lord Lyon Office, The Chief Herald of Ireland all call it mantling in their official grants. Canada uses both terms, but one is in English and the other is French. Even some eminent heraldrists call it a mantle or mantling. I do not know what the answer is, but fear that lambrequin is now archaic and mantling has taken over. Kiltpin (talk) 19:25, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

@Kiltpin Thanks for your response, but I wondering why you have changed your opinion?? Please response here → Commons:Categories for discussion/2014/12/Category:Heraldic mantling ↔ User: Perhelion (Commons: = crap?)  22:04, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

Mantling defines the mantle beyond the arm, frequently including a crown or others element of rank. Lambrequins are the decorative list of tissues descending from the helmet and are, usually, of the same colors of the arm. These elements are not the same thing, so there is not redundancy. --Massimop (talk) 20:55, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

@Massimop are you sure?? All speaks against this, as you can see here: Commons:Categories for discussion/2014/12/Category:Heraldic mantling, especially here en:Mantling. ↔ User: Perhelion (Commons: = crap?)  23:47, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

Yes, I'm sure. The users who used booth the categories are sure: in Heraldic mantling are inserted arms with mantles beyond the arms, where in Heraldic lambrequins are inserted only arms with list of tissues. That is correct. --Massimop (talk) 23:57, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

@Massimop It seems "the users" are be wrong, as you can read in the discussion (you not get in yet). ↔ User: Perhelion (Commons: = crap?)  01:05, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

Heraldry translation French to English requested

Hi there, I'm working on a number of coat of arms, which I will upload when finished, all of which have a French description from the Dutch heraldist J.B. Rietstap. Usually I can figure out what they mean, but this one puzzles me. Is anyone willing to help me out ? Thanks. “De sable à un arbre terrassé feuillé de trois grandes feuilles le tout de sinople”. Regards, --OSeveno (talk) 17:38, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

Hello OSeveno, can you give us the name from Rietstap - I have Rolland's depictions, so I can give you a blazon in English. Kiltpin (talk) 23:52, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

Sable, on a mount in base a tree sprouting three large leaves all Vert. Bad form that, colour on colour.—Odysseus1479 (talk) 06:33, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

- Thanks to both of you ! It's the coat of arms of the Scholting family. Now I see why it made no sense to me. It being color on color, that I didn't expect. Bad form indeed. But besides possibly plain bad forms of heraldry, Rietstap is known to have made mistakes in his descriptions. It's a shame there are no (free) pdf's of Rolland's depictions online. I looked extensively for them. Regards, --OSeveno (talk) 16:30, 19 December 2014 (UTC)