File talk:The return of the soldier (IA returnofsoldier00west2).pdf
Kept
[edit]This file was initially tagged by EncycloPetey as Copyvio (copyvio) and the most recent rationale was: This is still under copyright in the UK, it's country of origin, as Rebecca West died in 1983. The file needs to be transferred to English Wikisource, then deleted. I'm not at all sure that reasoning was correct. If it was published in the U.S. within 30 days of initial UK publication (and I think it very well may have been), then UK is presumably, in publishing terms, no more the "country of origin" than the U.S. (Yes, I realize Rebecca West was British.) Jmabel ! talk 07:33, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
- Keep both on that reasoning and the research here, which indicates initial serial publication in the United States. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 16:36, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
Keep First published in the US in both serialized and novel form, which makes it an US work. This edition is also the US edition. Ciridae (talk) 11:55, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
Comment if the file is determined to be out of scope for Commons, then please ping me and I will migrate this to English Wikisource where it solely needs to comply with the US copyright laws and would be in scope. — billinghurst sDrewth 03:32, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
@EncycloPetey: has your issue been addressed? In particular, do you still believe UK copyright is relevant, and if so why?- Jmabel ! talk 20:38, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
- If this is indeed a US-first publication and if Commons accepts that as the country of copyright, regardless of the nationality of the author, then I am satisfied. Past copyvio issues of this sort have considered the UK the country of origin, even in situations where the work was published in both countries at the same time. If Commons policy has changed on that matter, and a summary rationale can be stated, it could avoid future situations like this. --EncycloPetey (talk) 20:42, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
- Further comments sought at Commons:Village_pump/Copyright#"Country of origin" question because I don't have enough of a sense of how similar cases were decided in the past; my own view on how they should be decided should be clear from the above. - Jmabel ! talk 23:09, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
- Keep Per COM:L and its footnote 1, "The "country of origin" of a work is generally the country where the work was first published." "In cases where a work is simultaneously published in multiple countries, the "country of origin" is the country which grants the shortest term of copyright protection, per the Berne Convention." And we've used the Berne Convention definition in the past (e.g. Commons:Deletion requests/File:The phase rule and its applications (IA phaseruleitsappl00find).pdf and Commons:Deletion requests/File:The ivory workers of the middle ages (IA ivoryworkersmidage00cust).pdf), which results in the U.S. being the country of origin here. —Mdaniels5757 (talk • contribs) 23:21, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
- Comment The footnote has as its source the Berne Convention. It should be noted that the Berne Convention says that the "in the case of works first published in a country of the Union, that country; in the case of works published simultaneously in several countries of the Union which grant different terms of protection, the country whose legislation grants the shortest term of protection". For countries that are not part of the Union (like the United States was in 1918 -publication date of this book- until 1989), the Berne Convention says: "The country of origin shall be considered to be in the case of works published simultaneously in a country outside the Union and in a country of the Union, the latter country". Lugamo94 (talk) 17:00, 15 December 2023 (UTC)
- Since the US is currently a member of the Berne Convention, I think the initial rule would apply despite the fact that it was not a member at the time of publication. I could be wrong though. Regardless, I don't think it matters since we don't have any evidence that it was published simultaneously. Nosferattus (talk) 18:13, 15 December 2023 (UTC)
- Keep - First published in the US (more than 30 days prior to UK publication). If any evidence emerges to contrary, please strike my comments. Nosferattus (talk) 18:16, 15 December 2023 (UTC)
- Comment The original UK version by Nisbet does not mention a specific month (at least in the few images I could find online), the first American release does (March 1918). However, according to The Literary Achievement of Rebecca West by Harold Orel (p. 121), The Return of the Soldier was serialised first in the February and March 1918 issues of The Century Magazine, a magazine owned by The Century Company, publishers of the first American release. Which would indicate that indeed the book was published first in America, and probably with an exclusivity window of more than 30 days. Lugamo94 (talk) 19:10, 15 December 2023 (UTC)
- Keep per all the keepers above, despite the claim in the initial tag. — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 00:16, 16 December 2023 (UTC)
At this point it seems to me that a keep is a foregone conclusion. I see no point to letting this run the full seven days. - Jmabel ! talk 03:32, 16 December 2023 (UTC)\
Summary: although the author was British, this was first published in the U.S. (not even simultaneously in the UK) so U.S. copyright law is all we need to concern ourselves with here, so 1918 publication is enough to be PD. Permalink for the Wikisource discussion cited by User: TE(æ)A,ea. - Jmabel ! talk 03:38, 16 December 2023 (UTC)