Template talk:PD-Russia

From Wikimedia Commons, the free media repository
Jump to: navigation, search

Alex, this is pretty good. I've made some language improvements and mentioned the special case of works originally published posthumously. Lupo 17:03, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

But I would move it to {{PD-RF}} (RF for Russian Federation). Otherwise we'll end up with all retagged images having a funny "-revised" tag, which somehow looks like work-in-progress, even long after the tag has been settled. Lupo 17:06, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
You can feely rename this template. I suggest, the question about name is not principal. Alex Spade 17:51, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
I've renamed it in Template:PD-Russia-2008. Alex Spade 16:30, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

What does "subjected to repression" and "rehabilitated" mean? Those are strange terms to use in relation to publishing/copyright. Kaldari (talk) 02:31, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

See en:Rehabilitation (Soviet). Link added in the template. Lupo 08:16, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
en:Copyright law of the Russian Federation mentions some examples (Boris Pilniak, Isaac Babel, Osip Mandelstam). Lupo 08:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

Request for clarification[edit]

I assume the work only one needs to meet (at least) one of the four conditions. If so, perhaps we can clarify this by changing "Usually:[1]" to "Usually the work needs to meet at least one of the following condtion:[1]" --Bensin (talk) 16:43, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Renaming[edit]

{{editprotected}} Plz, rename this template to Template:PD-Russia. All images with old variant were relicensed or deleted in Ru-Wiki, En-Wiki and Commons. See also - User talk:Russavia/Archive 7#Template:PD-Russia. Alex Spade (talk) 19:30, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

✓ Done russavia (talk) 19:41, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

That was a very bad decision. All the deletion requests and discussions from the past now refer to the wrong template. The talk of the deleted template is deleted. The history is deleted. Not good. Either revert this move back to PD-Russia-2008 or PD-Russia-revised or archive the history under "PD-Russia-deleted" or something and fix all deletion request links. --Martin H. (talk) 21:35, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

Deletion requests are not problem and fix is not needed. Thanks to US-law and its 1996 year border, the real difference between old and new templates for Wikipedia/Commons purposes is insignificant (compare to difference between of deprecated {{PD-USSR}} and {{PD-Russia}}). I don't know any case on Commons and Ru-Wiki (where file must be free both in US and Russia) where uploaded file was kept under previous {{PD-Russia}} and must be deleted under new one. We also have tested such situation/possibility in En-Wiki (where file must be free in US only) and there was not any similar case over the time of 3.5 years. The more and more and more real problem for soviet files from that period is lack of publication date (real or possible date of creation is unimportant for RU-copyright-law), lack of authorship and author biographic data, lack of source, and etc. Alex Spade (talk) 10:13, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
But I agree, that the histories of previous version of template and its talk page can be interesting and can be (or must be ;-) ) (re)stored at Template:PD-Russia/previous and Template talk:PD-Russia/previous (os smth like these). Alex Spade (talk) 10:24, 19 October 2012 (UTC)

Wrong instructions[edit]

{{editprotected}} The instruction to "Use {{PD-old-70}} instead of this tag: [...] if this work was originally published anonymously or under the pseudonym before January 1, 1943 and the name of the author did not become known during 70 years after publication" seems factually wrong because {{PD-old-70}} does not cover such a case. Someone not using his real name (talk) 14:02, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

  • The main idea of {{PD-old-70}} is copyright term, which must be 70 years (or less). Date of publication anonymous work of equal to "author" death date for such tags (like PD-old-...). Alex Spade (talk) 14:37, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
    • You seem to be right per explanation in Commons:Anonymous works. I suggest adding an explanation to {{PD-old-70}} and similar templates saying that in case of anonymous works it is the date of publication that counts as dated of "death". Someone not using his real name (talk) 04:42, 29 July 2013 (UTC)
      • {{PD-old-70}} is what it is and should not be tempered with we use {{Anonymous-EU}} for such files and this template seems to be applicable to Russian anonymous files. --Jarekt (talk) 03:39, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

New 70-years rule not retroactive?[edit]

According to en:Wikipedia:Non-U.S._copyrights#Russia:_copyright_exemptions, the (2004) 70-year rule was not retroactive, meaning that the works which had passed in public domain by then were not reinstated into copyright. Can someone confirm this, and if it is so, amend the template accordingly? It does affect the transferability of some photos to Commons, for example en:File:Yak-9T with 45mm prototype.png. If non-retroactivity is assumed, anonymous Soviet photos from 1953 (=2004-50) or before can be uploaded. Someone not using his real name. (talk) 08:05, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

Looking at the 231-FZ law decree (passed Dec 2006, effective as 1 Jan 2008) it seems to say at article 6 (para 1) that the (seventy-year) provisions of articles 1281 and 1318 of the Civil Code (which regulate copyright in general and the passing into public domain respectively) do not apply if the (prior) fifty-year copyright (presumably granted by some previous laws/decrees) had already expired by Jan 1, 1993. Text in Russian: "Сроки охраны прав, предусмотренные статьями 1281, 1318, 1327 и 1331 Гражданского кодекса Российской Федерации, применяются в случаях, когда пятидесятилетний срок действия авторского права или смежных прав не истек к 1 января 1993 года." This makes little difference because 1993-50=1943, so it's basically not changing any term of substance. The 2nd paragraph of that article 6 sets the copyright term for en:legal persons (юридических лиц) to date of publication + 70 years (or date of creation + 70 years if work is unpublished.) So it seems that the info on the English Wikipedia is basically wrong, i.e. the 231-FZ law decree did retroactively extend copyright to 70 years for anything published after 1943. Am I reading this correctly? Someone not using his real name (talk) 11:20, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

By the way, article 27 of the 1993 law decree N 5351-1 [1] did set the copyright term to 50 years p.m.a, so the 70-years from 231-FZ (and the current Civil Code) is indeed a retroactive extension. Someone not using his real name (talk) 11:37, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

Yes, en:Wikipedia:Non-U.S._copyrights#Russia:_copyright_exemptions is totally outdated. Alex Spade (talk) 11:49, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
By law 5351-1, the term was actually 54 pma for virtually everyone who was born before 1930 and so took the chance to fight in the Great Patriotic war or work during the work. As such, virtually any author born before 1930 who died on or after June 22, 1941 still enjoyed the protection by January 1, 1993, because their copyright would only expire on January 1, 1996. Thus, their protection term was extended to 74 years by the implementation law 241-FZ. --DmitryKo (talk) 21:11, 28 May 2016 (UTC)

WWII photos[edit]

I thinks this template should state more clearly that the Russian copyright term for all WWII-wartime front-line & even photos from factories is 74 years (because the authors rather obviously participated or worked during the war). Basically all Soviet WWII photos are currently not public domain in Russia (2013-74=1939). Someone not using his real name (talk) 15:36, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

You are wrong. 1) Anonymous works have not got expanded copyright term. 2) Non-amateur films and radio records have not got expanded copyright term too. 3) Some/many Soviet WWII works were published in other Soviet Republics (or even abroad); only Russian Federation (and Kazakhstan, if I remember correctly) has expanded copyright term for GPW-people. Alex Spade (talk) 17:28, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

template correction[edit]

{{edit protected}} (Template:PD-Russia/en also is protected, I didn't notice that the original English text is there and not here.)
"The author of this work died before between January 1, 1942 and January 1, 1946 […]" What does "before between" mean? Before 1942 or between 1942 and 1946, both at the same time is not possible. I think that it should be "The author of this work died between January 1, 1942 and January 1, 1946" instead. --Bjarlin (talk) 00:53, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

Yup, this is my misprint. Must be before between. Alex Spade (talk) 15:45, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

I'm now noticing that this passage has been added on 10 January by Jarekt on the page Template:PD-Russia/en. Then all the translations also are wrong now and have to be changed. How can this be achieved? Is there a page for translations which have to be updated? This is a license issue, so it would be better to delete wrong translations completely and just set a link onto the actual English version than to have a wrong text on the pages which is misleading users. --Bjarlin (talk) 01:11, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

@Jarekt: Why have you changed {{#expr:{{CURRENTYEAR}}-70}} into the fix date 1946 a few days ago? If it hasn't changed that the date depends on the date of the author and it has to be 70 years after his death, then it is no fix date January 1, 1946, but only for 2016. I think that all places with "1946" have to be re-changed into {{#expr:{{CURRENTYEAR}}-70}}. --Bjarlin (talk) 01:56, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

Nope. This template (compared with PD-old-50, 70, and etc.) has already included interaction of the Russian and the US copyright laws, and the current variant of template do not need additional US-oriented tag. Alex Spade (talk) 10:42, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

I tried to update the new text in the German version, but I can't guess, what this means now after the last update on 10 January: "Cinema films first shown before January 1, 1929 are subjects of points 1 and 2 of this tag." That is the text of the second sup tag. What are the "points 1 and 2 of this tag"? What is meant by the sentence? What is "this tag"? Is it the sup tag? It has no points 1 or 2. @Jarekt: Can you explain that sentence? --Bjarlin (talk) 02:28, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

Maybe the points 1 and 2 of the template are meant, then it should say: "Cinema films first shown before January 1, 1929 are subjects of points 1 and 2 of this template." --Bjarlin (talk) 03:37, 19 January 2016 (UTC)
As I can see on Commons, template is term for template in general meaning (instrument for inclusion of one text to other), tag (license tag) is term for template with copyright conditions. Alex Spade (talk) 10:42, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

One more point: "4. This work was originally published anonymously or under the pseudonym between": Why "the pseudonym", which pseudonym? I think that it should be "a pseudonym" instead just like in point 3 before that. --Bjarlin (talk) 02:36, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

I've updated the things mentioned above in Template:PD-Russia/en/sandbox now. @Alex Spade: Ping for you, because the update seems to have been your text, not Jarekt's. --Bjarlin (talk) 03:37, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

Agree with a pseudonym. Alex Spade (talk) 10:42, 19 January 2016 (UTC)
✓ Done I agree with changes. --Jarekt (talk) 15:29, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

removed links to the Russian law texts[edit]

On 10 January 2016, there were removed the links to the relevant law texts in Russian:

I don't agree that it's easy to find those texts in Russian language, so I post the links here now. Then it's possible to find them here, if anyone is looking for such texts and can't find them. And it will be possible to notice, if they get changed in the future. --Bjarlin (talk) 03:53, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

  • Do you want to find Russian text (no English-translated text) from English template? Alex Spade (talk) 09:52, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

URAA sentence[edit]

There's one sentence in Template:PD-Russia/en that I don't understand at all:

  • "This work is in the public domain in the United States because it was in the public domain in its home country (Russia) on the URAA date (January 1, 1996)."

If the name of an author is known and the author died between 1926 and 1941, then he died before January 1, 1942 and point 1 applies. If he died between January 1, 1942 and January 1, 1946, point 2 applies. The URAA date is January 1, 1996. Thus, the work must have been in the Public Domain in Russia on this date. This applies to all works of authors which have died 70 years ago on that date, so they need to have died before 1926 (which is 1996 – 70 years, not 2016 – 70 years which is 1946, maybe the mistake is because of this and the fix year 1946 has to be 1926 instead?). That doesn't apply to all authors that died between 1926 and 1945, so works of those authors were not in the Public Domain in Russia on January 1, 1996 (URAA date), they got into the Public Domain after that. But if the template not only is used for works of authors who died before 1926, but also for those who died later, then not all works that use this template are in the Public Domain of the United States. Then this sentence is wrong and should be removed, and there has to be added a U.S. license to all works with this template. Especially if point 2 applies, the author can't possibly have died before 1926, so works of him can't have been in the Public Domain of Russia on January 1, 1996 according to this law. Also {{PD-old-70}} is not enough, there has to be added a U.S. license because of URAA, if the author has died more than 70 years ago.
Additionally, this law is of 2006, so no work of any author can have been in the PD of Russia before 1996 according to this law of 2006 which is 10 years after the URAA date, because this law didn't exist yet in 1995. How shall this be possible? --Bjarlin (talk) 04:27, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

Reading Template:PD-Soviet Russian copyright law of 1993 (No. 5351-1) seems to have defined a 50-year copyright term. So I suppose, the reason for this sentence is not 2016 – 70 years, but 1996 – 50 years. Because this is not understandable, I've added an explanation as comment now. Perhaps it would be better to explain the sentence in the template directly. Otherwise, it's misleading, because the template also says something about 1946 combined with a 70-year term: "This work was originally published anonymously or under the pseudonym between January 1, 1943 and January 1, 1946, and the name of the author did not become known during 70 years after publication." If the reason for the year 1946 is 1996 – 50 years, then this should be explained in the template. --Bjarlin (talk) 05:22, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

  • If all explanations will be included in template - it will be toooooo large. This template is for direct work - it is not article about Russian copyright law. In short: in 1993 it was 50(54) terms with retroaction, in 2004 it was expanded to 70(74) without retroaction for pre-2004 PD-works, in 2008 (implementation year) the border for 70(74) terms was shifted to 1993. Alex Spade (talk)

Films by Eisenstein[edit]

Sorry, but what about Eisenstein Films, i.e. Battleship Potemkin? There are some film stills here at commons with this template and I don't understand how they're covered by Russian law.

“5. This work is shot from non-amateur cinema or television film, which was first shown between January 1, 1929[2] and January 1, 1946.” → No, it was first shown in 1925. → “[2] Cinema films first shown before January 1, 1929 are subjects of points 1 and 2 of this template.” → Okay... Wait, but: → “1. The author of this work died before January 1, 1942.” and “2. The author of this work died between January 1, 1942 and January 1, 1946, did not work during the Great Patriotic War and did not participate in it.” → Eisenstein didn't die until 1948.

What do you think? --Filmschreiben (talk) 12:09, 18 February 2016 (UTC)

  • PD-Russia was updated not long ago (in Jan. 2016). License tags in descriptions of shots from 1917-1928 Soviet films must be revised. And, you are right - Potemkin is not {{PD-Russia}}. :-( Alex Spade (talk) 17:48, 18 February 2016 (UTC)