User talk:MonkeyPython

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Veena categorization

Hi, could you please explain this kind of changes (removing a precise category by an ambiguous one)? Is it just a mistake? --Phso2 (talk) 06:51, 10 October 2018 (UTC)

Hi! I looked around that and tried to find out where the origin of "saraswati" came from, as opposed to just a generic veena whose type is un-spesified, it is not called sarasvati veena anywhere I could find, nor could I find in history where it was decided it was. The page itself says from the picture originator that "I know nothing about musical instruments so if you happen to know what a particular instrument is, ".

My background here: I am adding Veena instruments to MusicBrainz, and also updating WikiData Items + any irregularities I see in commons in the process. I acknowledge that I may have acted too rashly with this; I do plan on searching and categorising all the different "veena/vina" here on commons as well - using different languages and scripts to find them all, for example. If you could tell me where /how it was decided this was Saraswati veena specifically I would be much obliged, and of course I do not mind to revert my changes should they prove wrong. I apologise as I should have made this clear while editing/opened a discussion. --CatCat (talk) 16:19, 10 October 2018 (UTC)

Well, it is definitely a saraswati veena because it has all the characteritics of a saraswati veena (type of neck/frets/strings etc, ask me if you want details). It is also probably what is written in the little inscription in the left, but it's difficult to be sure because of the little size. If you don't oppose I will revert when necessary. Cheers.--Phso2 (talk) 17:05, 10 October 2018 (UTC) PS you should have a look here, you often add a category that is a parent of the more precise category, this is called "overcategorization" and should be avoided.

ah, I see, I was unaware of the overcategorisation thing. I will endeavour to avoid that! And does this mean I should move images of people playing the instrument to any "people playing X instrument" located in the x instrument category also? alternatively if the majority of images/many images are indeed people playing said instrument, should I create a "people playing x instrument" subcategory? (does paintings or illustrations of people playing x instrument count as people playing instrument or should such be moved to a "x instrument in art" category?)

Yes, I'd love any and all details about the Saraswati veena (and any other veena) esp. how to tell them apart. That would be fantastic!--CatCat (talk) 16:53, 13 October 2018 (UTC)

OK. So to distinguish between the two more frequent veenas, ie saraswati veena and rudra veena, you can start by observing the body : S.Veena is a lute (in the HS system), so it has a soundboard over a resonating body, and a neck (like a guitar) ; the R Veena is a tube zither, so it has no body, no soundboard and no neck (the strings are attached to both end of the tube ; the two resonators are not fully part of the instrument in a functional point of view). Then, the S veena is distinguished from other "lutes" (sitar, sarod etc) by some features : number and form of the bridges and frets, strings sets etc. S Veena has a specific arched lateral bridge (with 3 strings) adjacent to the main bridge (with 4 strings) here (sadly with missing strings) or here. Contrary to the sitar it has no sympathetic strings running underneath the frets. You can also guess from the playing context : rudra veena is a north indian music instrument, saraswati veena a carnatic (south indian) music instrument.--Phso2 (talk) 10:53, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

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RMaung (WMF) 15:19, 20 September 2019 (UTC)

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vitchitra vina

Hi. This is indeed a picture of a Vichitra veena, so you were correct; will you self-revert?--Phso2 (talk) 15:41, 13 February 2020 (UTC)

Hi, you are correct, https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ch2.JPG *is* a vichitra veena.

For example https://atlasofpluckedinstruments.com/india.htm also collaborates this.

The problem, if you see the "global file usage" on page is that most pages (including hindi, kannada and malayam, indian languages) link this on pages named "chitra vina", "gottuvdyam" or similar. Indeed, the name of the file itself is "ch2" which makes "chitra" come to mind.

Additionally if you see the Summary section, the uploading user also said this is "chitra" not "vichitra" .. should we attempt to reach out to them? — Preceding unsigned comment added by CatCat (talk • contribs) 14:01, 17 February 2020 (UTC)

With all of these I second guessed my belief in what instrument this was. So my wonder is if we should edit all these (preferably by exchanging it with a suitable image of an actual chitra) and point to this conversation (plus if atlas.. is a valid enough source also.)

What do you think? CatCat (talk) 13:53, 17 February 2020 (UTC)

You are right about the use on the pic on indian WP and the description of the uploader; however this is a quite rare instrument, and most people on earth are not familiar with instruments name, even from their own culture (guess, how many Western people can make a difference between viol and cello? I have seen several western people confusing mandolins and ukuleles, and so on), so it is most probably a confusion here and there (I also doubt that the original uploader really took the photo himself). "atlas of worldinstruments" is usually very reliable ; Google image always shows this kind of instrument (the one depicted on this "ch2.jpg") associated with vichitraveena and hindoustani music, and always the real gottuvadhyam (i.e. an insrument looking very similar to a saraswati veena) associated with actual instrumentalists playing gottuvadhyam.--Phso2 (talk) 18:13, 17 February 2020 (UTC) (you can answer here)