User talk:Zar2gar1

Welcome to Wikimedia Commons, Zar2gar1!

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-- Wikimedia Commons Welcome (talk) 17:26, 10 October 2015 (UTC)

Kaiser Steel Corp

Hi. I see you are improving the Kaiser Steel article on wikipedia. I have done more research and have a few pages of notes that you are gonna find interesting. Nowakki (talk) 02:57, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

Hi there, I noticed you had done a lot of work on the article. I hope you like my changes so far and think they're net-positive.

I don't remember how I stumbled across the article, but I happen to have a copy of City of Quartz, which is where I learned about the Fontana plant. The book has a lot of big-picture info and complements the floor-level details from the trade magazines and government reports so I figured I'd add more.

After skimming the article, I realized it could probably be compressed some too, and reorganized along chronological lines since the original plant and company are now in the past. I also have a skosh of formal training in metallurgy so I'm trying to clarify how all the pieces fit together in the steelmaking process.

I should be finished working my way through the article in the next couple weeks. Anything you want to rework or add at that point would be awesome. -- Zar2gar1 (talk) 18:37, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

i have 132 urls from various sources and a couple of very long articles from Iron and Steel Engineer.

My problem is that i am permabanned on wikipedia, but i can supply you with a feed of references and/or text fragments that you can work into the article.

Naturally I don't agree with everything you did, but I am pleasantly surprised that you did not remove the details and quantitative stuff. So i thought you might be interested in more of that. Nowakki (talk) 01:01, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

Oh yeah, I'm trying to streamline them some, but I think those economic details are great for a heavy manufacturing project. I probably won't do it myself, just leave it as a "further improvement" idea on the talk-page, but I think some line charts for various metrics would be really cool. I always like seeing a little more color and eye-candy in articles.

I'll go ahead and take a look over your fragments too. I don't want to over-promise that I'll work many in since I'm trying to limit my time on Wikipedia. Regardless of what I add though, I will put a link on the talk-page to your notes here so any future editors can check them out. -- Zar2gar1 (talk) 23:47, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

The talk page is not going to do any good. The chance of meeting a competent person on wikipedia who is interested in this stuff is maybe once every 2 years. And i can probably appeal my ban if i find the nerves to talk to the moderator goons.

I will add a few things of what i find most important in the form of text fragments (also suitable to be used as copy+paste footnotes) as a kind of teaser and do more if you ask for more.

For example, Kaiser Steel was the one that built the original version of

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roberts_Bank_Superport

wikipedia has not connected the dots in the last decade. That and many other things missing half a year ago from the article (look at the history) speaks volumes about the density of qualified personnel here. They are probably all of them limiting their time on the wikipedia.

/rant over Nowakki (talk) 01:16, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

I have opened a new category on commons.

c:Category:Kaiser Steel Corporation Nowakki (talk) 17:26, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

In the article lead you say that steel was used by Kaiser Industries.

Kaiser Industries was a holding company which derived its income by holding shares of Kaiser Steel, Kaiser Aluminum and other subsidiaries of the Kaiser empire. I imagine in the future will elaborate further on that with sources. AFAIK only the Kaiser Steel fabrication division in Napa, Montebello and Fontana used steel from the mill.

You group the sintering plant as part of smelting, but it should be grouped as material processing. Nowakki (talk) 14:11, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

I haven't incorporated your additions yet, but they look good and shouldn't be too hard to add. Thanks for the proofreading too, they're good catches. I've noticed while editing the article, unless you tediously specify which all the time, Kaiser the man, the conglomerate, and the official corporations all kind of blend together. The sinter plant change makes sense to me too. My original thinking was it's preparation for the blast furnace, but then again, that's kind of true for all ore processing. -- Zar2gar1 (talk) 16:54, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

have you run out of steam? Nowakki (talk) 16:45, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

Not entirely, and I plan to edit the page more soon. I wound up working on some other pages and projects though, and I'll probably be editing more sporadically with March coming up.

I definitely plan to finish reorganizing the entire article though, with a second pass to polish it. I should be able to incorporate a lot of what you've found too, but if I wind up having to stop early, I'll be sure to put a link in the talk-page for posterity. -- Zar2gar1 (talk) 23:52, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

I think it would be best to split the article in two. You have begun to rewrite it as a timeline, which means you have to make compromises between detail and conciseness. Some people will be interested in either version. A second article can give a the details like i wrote it (i.e. one section per topic) and there is no longer a need to compromise. Nowakki (talk) 07:24, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

I'll consider that after I finish the second pass, which should tighten things up much further. I'm definitely still feeling a chronological structure, since the company and plant are now historical. The article isn't that large by word-count either, and I think everything else can still be added in a compact way.

The possibility of moving details on the various mines and the railroad into their own articles did come to mind though. I'll leave a note on the talk page if I don't get around to it. -- Zar2gar1 (talk) 22:13, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

I have started producing text fragments suitable for inclusion in the article here:

User:Nowakki/KSC

The wikilinks are designed to work on wikipedia if you copy and paste the markup. Nowakki (talk) 15:13, 8 February 2024 (UTC)